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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 12:59 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 12:59 pm by Ignorant.)
(November 15, 2016 at 8:15 am)Whateverist Wrote: Actually I just found your recent thread on the uses of objective and subjective. Just a great opening post on your part and an equally insightful one by Jorgy at the end.
Oh and I confess I had lost track of you and didn't connect you to your earlier posts or I would never have given you short shrift, even in one of my out-of-sorts states.
I appreciate your kind words here and elsewhere. In the future, I will try and give everyone I speak with reasons to say the same. Sincerely, thank you.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 1:04 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 1:07 pm by Ignorant.)
(November 15, 2016 at 9:30 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: Not the point. It doesn't matter whose god you choose, you're using a loaded definition of the word god. [1] Such 'relationships' only materialize with certain gods. I don't have a relationship with Loki, nor is he subsistent being (a concept I detest, btw). [2] What you have by acknowledging a creator is a deistic god about whom nothing is known, unless you load the box with your own self-serving definition. [3]
1) I was under the impression that this sort of thought experiment gives me the liberty to do so, but I've been wrong before.
2) I'm sorry to hear that!
3) Correct! =) However, I derived this definition from my own understanding of the argument from contingency and necessity. The thought experiment for me then became: "Supposing some god did exist, why should I care?" Well, not only is this the sort of god I think exists, but it is also one I think is deserving of at least some attention.
Is this the all-encompassing and complete rational conception of god? No. Is it even the only incomplete rational conception of god out there? No.
I just thought it was a good place to start, and I am sorry you feel otherwise.
Also, thank you for your kind words made to Alasdair. I hope that, in the future, I can live up to them in all of my interactions on these forums
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 1:10 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 1:13 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(November 15, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Ignorant Wrote: (November 15, 2016 at 9:44 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Ignorant is too intellectually dishonest and full of fallacies to be worth debating with.
Quote:I just deserve so much better than that crap. I know this may seem like an overreaction but I deserve so much better than that fucking avoidant shit.
"Ignorant" is indeed a very suitable name for that fucker.
I am very sorry to have made you feel like this, Alasdair. You are very right to mention that you deserve much better, and (overreaction or not) I understand why you would react like you have. I acted poorly, and I am sorry. You have always treated me with respect, and you are right to mention that you did nothing to provoke this. I failed you. I allowed myself to get frustrated by your apparent (i.e. not real) failure to read what I had already written in answer to your question. In the time it took for me to condescendingly copy-and-paste everything BUT my answer to your question, I could have easily typed out the same answer I did for Robvalue 5 posts above. My response HERE communicates a similar failure for which I am sorry. I understand why you are saying the things you are about me, but it is my hope that, in the future, you would trust me again to have a reasonable discussion.
Thank you very much for your response and I'm sorry for my overreaction and insulting language. Honestly life is really hard for me right now, I would normally maintain my decency rather than lose it. I accept your apology fully. I hope I don't let little things like this get to me again.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 1:18 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 1:19 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Quote:Well, not only is this the sort of god I think exists, but it is also one I think is deserving of at least some attention.
Why? Define "some attention"? That is, after all, the question in the OP. All this foreplay, lol...here we are. It's showtime.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 1:22 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 1:18 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Quote:Well, not only is this the sort of god I think exists, but it is also one I think is deserving of at least some attention.
Why? [1] Define "some attention"? [2] That is, after all, the question in the OP. All this foreplay, lol...here we are. It's showtime.
1) Because everything I am and everything I do involves it in some way.
2) Interest in the nature of the relationship between me and it. Interest in what-it-is. Interest in the nature of the relationship between it and everything else. Interest in what that means for me.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 1:24 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 1:30 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 15, 2016 at 1:22 pm)Ignorant Wrote: 1) Because everything I am and everything I do involves it in some way. Bit like oxygen, then, or any number of other things we don;t care about in any meaningful way?
Quote:2) Interest in the nature of the relationship between me and it. Interest in what-it-is. Interest in the nature of the relationship between it and everything else. Interest in what that means for me.
So, academic interest? Yeah, sure, that's all the interest I'd have in an existent god as well. When's the last time you thanked oxygen for all it's done for you, or wondered what it wanted for your life? Prayed to it, of late? Build any buildings to it, or sit in the pews? Cast it's vote at the ballot box? Wondered what it all -means-, for you, by reference to it?
Any of that?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 1:25 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 1:10 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Thank you very much for your response and I'm sorry for my overreaction and insulting language. Honestly life is really hard for me right now, I would normally maintain my decency rather than lose it. I accept your apology fully. I hope I don't let little things like this get to me again.
Just sent you a message before reading this. I'm sorry to hear that things are tough for you right now, and you response is even more understandable. I hope things get better for you.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 1:27 pm
(November 15, 2016 at 1:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Bit like oxygen, then, or any number of other things we don;t care about in any meaningful way? [1]
So, academic interest? Yeah, sure, that's all the interest I'd have in an existent god as well. [2]
1) Almost exactly like that.
2) At this point, sure, that's understandable.
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 1:32 pm
At this point? You think we're going to get any farther, lol? Well why not skip to that and stop licking our earlobes, since that's what the OP asked?
I did mention that it was showtime, didn't I?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 15, 2016 at 2:27 pm
(This post was last modified: November 15, 2016 at 2:27 pm by Ignorant.)
(November 15, 2016 at 1:32 pm)Rhythm Wrote: At this point? You think we're going to get any farther, lol? Well why not skip to that and stop licking our earlobes, since that's what the OP asked?
I did mention that it was showtime, didn't I?
Wait a minute, I've already forgotten:
Rhythm Wrote: Not with me, no. I'm not interested in setting a different tone. I'm very much aware of how I come across, and it's completely intentional.
Thanks for your interest, but your lack of interest in the sort of discussion I'd like to have tells me it would be best to just let you have the last word here.
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