Sins

[Drich]

First and foremost, since I have yet to see proof of any god, I don't believe in the concept of sin. Thus, I don't have a version of it. The burden of proof isn't on ME to help you make YOUR argument. You're an adult. Make it yourself and answer my post without trying to put it back on me.

" Judy, judy, judy." If you are going to pretend to quote the bible (or any other literary work) you are bound to the work as a primary source material. So when asked to provide a source quote from said work, your belief in validity in that work has no bearing on a canonical quote. For instance you can say that according to marvel comics the Incredible Hulk is red.. Now whether you believe in the existence of the hulk as a real being or not has absolutely no bearing on you quoting what marvel comics said concerning the color of the hulk.

This is exactly what you did sport-tress. You "quoted" the bible now I have called your bluff. Either provide the quoted material I requested or admit you misrepresented the bible/don't know it well enough to quote it.

This is just another weak attempt for you to get around my post where your bullshit and contradictions have been called into question and you refuse to answer with anything that is relevant.

again sport-tress, there is only contradiction if your quote from the bible is true. Otherwise know in your heart even if you canot admit it aloud what I said (and my book chapter and verse) are true.

I have just as much of a right to pick apart your theories and call you into question as anyone else.

quid pro quoe Judy judy judy, qui pro quoe. If you have a right to question my statements based on "bla bla bla" then I do (to what you have said) as well.

So how about this put down the red herring and stand behind what you've claimed.

Going off of YOUR post, I can ask questions that make you use logic. I don't have to quote anything from the bible, but since you are Soooo insistent:

Moo ha ha a..

Just a question before we start.. Do you know the purpose of the psalms?
What the psalms were, their use in worship?

They were poetry and hymns to be put to music. While there is much truth that can be found in the psalms, the book of psalms is not law. Romans on the other hand is a book of (Christian) law/rules.

Even so I won't dismiss what you've quoted just because I technically can. I want you to see how your failure is complete so we will also look at the context you omitted.

You quoted:
Psalm 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

And

Psalms 58:3 Even from birth, the wicked go astray.


But when we look at in context:
For the director of music. A psalm of David. When the prophet Nathan came to him after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba.

1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight;
so you are right in your verdict
and justified when you judge.
5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

We clearly see one man lementing his personal sin, and going to God about his own personal situation. This is made abundantly clear when you go back to the the Hebrew or even to the king James text.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm...onc_529005

Then you quote:
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god,

"All" in The Jewish/koine Greek lexicon meant "all" that Paul took the time to list. You know all the people you just left out to misrepresent the bible to support your failed exegesis of this passage.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...3956&t=KJV

Here are the "all" Paul was talking about:https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3&version=NIV

If ou can't be bother to look he was directly speaking about Jews and Gentiles being found guilty by the law, he was not establishing the idea that we were born in sin.

Shall I cite more, sport?

im still kinda waiting for you to do a little more than a index search. But I kinda got the feeling you've already put your best foot forward.
Either way bring it... Sport.[/quote]

[daver49]

Sin is awesome because it's an ever present condition that creates a need. That need is constant attempts at atonement through rites, rituals, sermons, confessions, etc.

So, if it's an ever present condition that creates a need and the need is constant...(I'm assuming because the condition is constant) than it must be conditional behavior, right? So we are like Pavlov's dogs? That reminds me, where is my bone..?

[KevinM1]

Sin is awesome because it's an ever present condition that creates a need. That need is constant attempts at atonement through rites, rituals, sermons, confessions, etc.

So, if it's an ever present condition that creates a need and the need is constant...(I'm assuming because the condition is constant) than it must be conditional behavior, right? So we are like Pavlov's dogs? That reminds me, where is my bone..?

If you buy into religion, sure, why not?

[daver49]

So, if it's an ever present condition that creates a need and the need is constant...(I'm assuming because the condition is constant) than it must be conditional behavior, right? So we are like Pavlov's dogs? That reminds me, where is my bone..?

If you buy into religion, sure, why not?

So, we want to feel better about ourselves and religion comes along and says, "Hey, I can help you out...just do this and this and pay me such and such and all will be ok." Am I on the right track? And the thing is, it is religion that makes us feel lousy in the first place! So, they have both ends covered...they create the illness and they supply the cure? And then, when you stay sick, they say, here, you need a bigger dose?

[KevinM1]

If you buy into religion, sure, why not?

So, we want to feel better about ourselves and religion comes along and says, "Hey, I can help you out...just do this and this and pay me such and such and all will be ok." Am I on the right track? And the thing is, it is religion that makes us feel lousy in the first place! So, they have both ends covered...they create the illness and they supply the cure? And then, when you stay sick, they say, here, you need a bigger dose?

It's a bit more insidious than that since the vast majority of people are born into their religion. From day one they're told they're so bad and worthless that they're going to suffer for eternity unless they buy into the Christ story with every fiber of their being.

So, it's not usually an instance where people have a tough time of things, look for help, and then get suckered into religion, although those people do exist (and are usually paraded around as examples of how people can turn their lives around through religion, even though they're really just replacing one addiction with another). Instead, it's more vile because it's teaching children to feel like they're bad for simply existing. That Jesus died for them, and that they owe it to him to do what he says because of that. It's a massive mind fuck and guilt trip.

And, just by looking through this forum, you can see the effect that kind of thinking has had on people. Feeling ashamed for rather mundane thoughts and desires. Never being able to feel peace until they left the church. Being hounded by people to drink more of the Kool-Aid and to dive deeper into the cult, to the point of threats and harassment. Shit, even some of the Christians on here delight in throwing potential familial ostracism in the face of young people trying to find a way out from the madness.

Religion is difficult to nail down with analogous metaphors. It's part addiction, part abusive relationship. All cult. It's hard to get out because the answer to every question is to surrender even more to it.

[Joods]

Judy, judy, judy." If you are going to pretend to quote the bible

First of all... I did NOT quote the bible. This is EXACTLY what I said and I will bold parts of it so that your feeble mind understands:

1. According to the bible*, we are born sick or unclean, or with sin or however you want to phrase it. *This is of course if you believe in sin and if you believe in the bible. But because I'm speaking to you, then it applies, because you believe.
If this is factually correct, then it would be impossible for you to compare it to your second flawed statement.

If I'm going to ACTUALLY quote the bible, I'll cite the references for it. Duh.
Second my name is JUDI. Not Judy and I find that pathetic that you can't give me enough respect to even spell my name correctly. Maybe I'll just start calling you what everyone else does, drippy.
Your drivel is sad and pathetic and I'm not even going to entertain the mile long circular response from you because you have gotten so way far off topic, any response from this point out would be pointless.

[abaris]

Your drivel is sad and pathetic and I'm not even going to entertain the mile long circular response from you because you have gotten so way far off topic, any response from this point out would be pointless.

He's a weaseling collection of bible quotes. Not that he still didn't say anything to clarify the "final test" part of his trucker story. After a while it gets fundamentally boring to even read what he's typing.

[Drich]

Sin is awesome because it's an ever present condition that creates a need. That need is constant attempts at atonement through rites, rituals, sermons, confessions, etc.

So, if it's an ever present condition that creates a need and the need is constant...(I'm assuming because the condition is constant) than it must be conditional behavior, right? So we are like Pavlov's dogs? That reminds me, where is my bone..?

You meant bell.

[Ravenshire]

Prove what I said isn't true. Provide statistical, documented proof. I'll wait. Total avoidance of addressing my point. So predictable.

Well, I'm afraid I can't help drippy in his hopeless cause. My kids never had chicken pox.

Sorry to piss all over you really bad argument drippy.

[Drich]

Judy, judy, judy." If you are going to pretend to quote the bible

First of all... I did NOT quote the bible.

I did not say you quoted the bible I said you pretended to quote the bible. See it's even in my quote above.

This is EXACTLY what I said and I will bold parts of it so that your feeble mind understands:

1. According to the bible*, we are born sick or unclean, or with sin or however you want to phrase it. *This is of course if you believe in sin and if you believe in the bible. But because I'm speaking to you, then it applies, because you believe.
If this is factually correct, then it would be impossible for you to compare it to your second flawed statement.

oh you must be a peach to know In Real life. Let's look at the truth shall we? In truth you opened with 'according to the bible' then you puked up quote that sound like it was based in what you remember from Sunday school, yet you did not a credit a Sunday school source. Your credit for this source material was the bible. This is what I meant when I said "you pretend to quote the bible" this pretend quote is further compounded when you tried to for my concession by telling me what I should believe about your "according to the bible comment."

Judy, Judy, judy, if your going to bluff,

stone up when your bluff is called.

If I'm going to ACTUALLY quote the bible, I'll cite the references for it. Duh.
Second my name is JUDI. Not Judy and I find that pathetic that you can't give me enough respect to even spell my name correctly. Maybe I'll just start calling you what everyone else does, drippy.
Your drivel is sad and pathetic and I'm not even going to entertain the mile long circular response from you because you have gotten so way far off topic, any response from this point out would be pointless.

Sorry Judes, but inorder for my nickname for you to be funny it has to follow Goobers "take off of Cary Grant" to the tee. (Even the spelling)
http://youtu.be/blQrIySidOA


That is unless you had a change of heart and now feel that it is important to properly relay information as close to the orginal format as possible.[/quote]