The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Again if you were a true Christan in you past then you would be one today. Your salvation is not based on you or what you can do but on the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If you never had a relationship with God or you don't have one now then you were never a Christian.

Stimbo: I referenced the Bible because it is the revealed word of God.
Redbeard: Was your account a norm in your daily "Christian" life? Those people who define faith as just a feeling without anything to back it up are defining it incorrectly. I used the bibles definition because it is God's word.
Rob: if stuff is being made up then you can prove it wrong
Rocketsurgen: your statement of flawed but there is nothing wrong with you is a contradiction. You either have nothing wrong with you or you are flawed you can't have both. If you say you are prefect then you are arrogant and if you are flawed then you have to be comparing yourself to a standard. Everyone knows there is a standard even if they don't agree on what that standard is. This is because we are made in the image of God and we instinctively know that we aren't what we are supposed to be.

Are you seriously so delusional as to think you have some special, personal revelation that is different from the experiences of people who are sitting here telling you that, when they were Christians, they would have said exactly what you are saying now? We also thought we had a special, personal revelation from the Lord of Hosts through His Son the Savior of Mankind. That's what makes a Christian - accepting that as Truth™, on faith, and believing that our "sins" are then paid for by the sacrifice of the Son on the cross. We were not just churchgoers who hummed along with the tune, so to speak. I'm sorry you have trouble accepting that, but that is the reality.

Telling us we were never "really" Christian is to call us liars, because we thought we were, we believed we were just as much as you believe you are. Yet people walk away from Christianity all the time, even preachers who have dedicated their lives to Jesus but started to see things in the belief system that conflicted with testable reality.

Faith is a feeling. You feel you have evidence because you believe and consider that to be sufficient, which gives it a sense of reality to you... or as Paul called it "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

My statement is not  flawed. An arbitrarily-defined standard of "perfection", which no human being can meet, is a basic psychological-breakdown technique used to get people to do what others want them to do. I'll give you an example. The cosmetics industry spends millions of dollars a year on commercials which are written by people with the psychological training to convince women (and, increasingly, men) that they are not naturally beautiful enough and thus are in need of the company's products to try to meet that standard. They tell you that you have a flaw, and then they tell you that they can sell you the solution.

Does that mean we're not flawed? We all have flaws; even the most beautiful person you can imagine is still not "perfect" in beauty. The key to happiness is realizing that you are flawed and fine just the way you are.

When you learn to let go of the hold that religion clearly has over your mind, telling you it has The One Right Way™ and that even though you can never meet that standard of imaginary perfection, you should still buy their product, you will free yourself as we did.

Right now, you sound like Tammy Faye Baker, wearing pounds of makeup and insisting that it makes her beautiful (rather than just depressing to everyone who sees through the facade).



So you say, "Everyone knows there is a standard even if they don't agree on what that standard is." We don't agree on what the standard of perfection is because it's imaginary. It is made up. As for your "everyone knows" part, I'll end with another Robert Heinlein quotation:

"If 'everybody knows' such-and-such, then it ain't so, by at least ten thousand to one." -Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

[Redbeard The Pink]

Again if you were a true Christan in you past then you would be one today.

Fuck you, you ignorant liar.

Your salvation is not based on you or what you can do but on the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Bullshit.

If you never had a relationship with God or you don't have one now then you were never a Christian.

Fuck you, you ignorant liar.

Redbeard: Was your account a norm in your daily "Christian" life?

There for a while, yeah, it pretty much was. I was a prayer and ministry warrior, bitch. I know divine secrets you've never dreamed of, and I still don't believe in any of it. I've read the Bible more than you, I've done ministry more than you, I've probably loved Jesus and his church more than you, and at the end of the day I'm an atheist. That should tell you something, and it should be something besides "Oh you were never a true Christian" because that's a "No True Scotsman" fallacy and if you keep doing it I'm going to continue to call you a fucking liar and an ignorant bitch, though probably in less kind terms.

Those people who define faith as just a feeling without anything to back it up are defining it incorrectly. I used the bibles definition because it is God's word.

Wrong. You're defining it incorrectly. I use the human definition because the Bible is bullshit and the god it depicts is nonexistent. Furthermore, I never said anything about "feeling." We're talking about belief here. If a person believes something that is not sufficiently supported by evidence, that is faith. That is what the word means in these debates when we talk about faith vs. logic. Your book can die in a fire. I do not care what it says about faith.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

It does crack me up when they say that. "I don't believe just because I feel it, I believe it because the Bible says so!"

Hey... genius... you feel the Bible is worth believing when it tells you those things. I believe it because the Bible says to believe it, and I believe the Bible! It's not that they say it, it's that they can say it with a straight face.

[robvalue]

The offer is still open to tell me the four digit number I'm thinking of. Anyone actually in communication with God could do this. If they are prepared to write out hundreds of posts trying to convince us of stuff, four numbers shouldn't be much to ask.

I like to keep repeating this, to show that after all the claims of people talking to God, as soon as it moves into anything real, anything they don't already know, God becomes silent.

Why is that?

[Rekeisha]

But we weren't discussing any revealed word. You said that you have dreams, impressions, ideas and thoughts that you attribute to "God". What does any "revealed word" have to do with that?

I did make that comment to Devine. God's words are not contradictory and His purposes are the same no matter what way He communicates. He has developed the Bible as an easy source to find His words and I have that avalible to me. So I am accountable for knowing what He days through His word.

[Cyberman]

What does that have to do with what I asked?

[Rekeisha]

Why are you so angry when I tell you you were never a christian? You don't believe there in God. You can call me every name under the sun and it won't won't make me those. You can try to define faith as a feeling but it won't make it be defined that. You may try to redfine the word flawed it won't changed the fact that you do have a problem with sin. You may feel as though you were more of an elete christian than I ever will be. I don't need to know the devine secrets you speak about I know the One who knows everything. You felt like christians but God says that the heart is deceitful above all else that is why you need a new one. Since you are familiar with the bible you will know that Jesus said that many will say lord lord we cast out demons in your name but he will say away from me I NEVER KNEW YOU. Feeling like you have had a revelation and knowing who God is different. Your feelings will lie to you but God won't. You are sinners and God loves you and sent His son jesus to die for your sins. Then He rose with all power and authority. Your feelings in the matter will not change that. You must repent and accept the gift. Now you may continue to throw your verbal abuse if that makes you feel better.

[Rekeisha]

What does that have to do with what I asked?

I cant remeber what you asked

[Cyberman]

Can you remember how to scroll up through the posts?

[Whateverist]

Why are you so angry when I tell you you were never a christian?

Don't worry, honey.  You can tell me I was never a christer if you like.  I only wish that it were true.  


Unfortunately I had to get dressed up and go to church and sing and stuff until I was about five years old.  I got off easy.  But there are people here who were bible reading, witnessing and preaching Christians well into their adult years.  To tell them they were never Christians is just another side of your wishful thinking.  You just go on ignoring anything in the world which conflicts with your fervent belief.  Cuz everyone knows when you truly believe shit fervently enough then you are entitled to say what that shit is and how it works.