The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Stumbled across this picture while looking at Monty Python stuff, and it made me think of this thread:

[Rekeisha]

I think it is humorous that you believe that people are unbiased. We all have a biased and want our own agendas and a true Christian's agenda has change to God's agenda. Also a bias can't stop the truth from coming out. It is a myth that believe that people are unbiased or that you can't get the truth from people who are unbiased. Could it be possible that you bias view point will stop you from getting the truth? Why don't you fact check my website. You fact checked your right?

I believe it's possible for people to look at things without a presupposed bias, and I think it's possible for humans to construct methods of gaining information which are specifically designed to account for and negate the fact that human faculties tend to work from confirmation bias. These methods are called science. Confirmation bias is one of the reasons science exists; individual human experience and perception is a terrible benchmark for figuring out what's true about the world, so humans have had to devise ways of figuring out what parts of reality are actually reality and what parts of reality only exist in the minds of certain humans. Your Gaud, as it turns out, falls into that second category. 


There are perfectly scientific, rational explanations for why people of all faiths experience answers to prayer, visions, prophecies, and even miracles, and Occam's Razor dictates you must use evidence to rule out these simpler explanations before moving on to the absurd and untestable hypothesis, "Gaud did it with his magic."


Oh, and Rocket wasn't plagiarizing your argument because it was good. He was showing you how terrible it is by demonstrating that it works with any god (or anything, really) that you plug into the bolded spots. It could have just as easily looked like this:

The truth is the truth. Your situation hasn't changed so the solution to your sin hasn't changed either.   the son of   came down out of his great love and mercy to defeat sin and death through his contribution of spaghetti and meatballs. You can live with Him by accepting His delicious pasta. Or you can cling to your sin and be removed with it when   comes to judge all man kind. You can keep posting your propaganda against the truth if you wish but I will continue to tell you the truth.

Or this:

The truth is the truth. Your situation hasn't changed so the solution to your sin hasn't changed either. My Dick the son of My Dad's Dick came down out of his great love and mercy to defeat sin and death through blasting it on the walls and floor. You can live with Him by accepting His stains on the wall. Or you can cling to your sin and be removed with it when My Dick comes to judge all man kind. You can keep posting your propaganda against the truth if you wish but I will continue to tell you the truth.

It has the exact same veracity regardless of what goes in that slot. You're just making assertions and threatening eternal violence as the consequence and sole reason for belief.


Cult, cult cult.

I guess you are failing at finding good argumentation against the truth as well.

If you use science but your starting point is wrong your outcome will always be wrong. Also did you think about fact checking the website, or did you just bring your presuppositions to the website and rule it out because it didn't fit your category of what you feel is non-bias?

You act like science is this magical thing and every time you come to a conclusion using Science it must be right. Talk about drinking the kool-aid. "Science says... so it must be right" "it's scientific!" "Science proves _____ so that is how the world works". People are the one behind using the tool of science to figure things out. If people are flawed then their conclusions can be flawed. If people have the presupposition that God doesn't exist it is not a surprise that their conclusions will lead them to that conclusion. To use science you must rely on knowledge, logic, uniformity and you can not account for those things without God. Science can't disprove faith or God or anything God has set up. You can misuse the tool and blindly try to etch out your own understanding of things but you will be wrong.

The truth is God is in control of everything. He see and know everything as well as the real reason why you don't want to follow Him. If you truly used critical thinking you would have to end up at the conclusion that God is real. What is amazing to me is that He cares for you even when you do everything in your power to stick your head in the sand and pretend He isn't there. You treat Him like He is your enemy even though He seek your best. He is the most precious being in all creation. Nothing is worth more than He is and He willingly gives Himself to you. He did this on the cross for your sins and If you accept His sacrifice He will also Give yo the Holy Spirit as a down payment. He want to give you amazing things but I find that you just want to play around in the dirt. You can have so much more but you settle for only what you can do. You stunt your thinking by hiding behind "human knowledge and wisdom".

I hope you have something intelligent to say in response to my post.

[Rekeisha]

By your response I am beginning to believe that you don't have any better ideas to counter the truth with. Is my argumentation so good that you feel the need to plagiarize?

Also your use of the cult mantra is weak. Who is my cult leader? Who am I telling you has the corner on the truth? I will let you know it isn't me it is Jesus Christ. I don't want to point you to anyone else but God. No one has to go through anyone else to speak to God.

I know I am a sinner and I know who God is and that He died for my sins and now I am forgiven and able to deal with all of life because He is my foundation. He can do the same for you and you can speak to Him about it.

As Redbeard was already kind enough to point out, I was just showing you that what you wrote to me was the same no matter what cult deity (or whatever) was plugged into the places where you named your own. You think you are telling us Deep Thoughts™, but in reality, it's just mindless babble of the kind that tends to come out of people who've wacked their brains out by absorbing cult thinking. That's the "mantra", which you repeat without really thinking about it.

I like that you ask who your cult leader is, and then NAME the cult leader. I know you think Jesus is God the way the Branch Davidians thought David Koresh was god, but that's how cults work. Charismatic leader becomes deified. 

The fact that you can't spot the similarities, even when they are being spoken to your face, is why I say your brain is gone, rotted out by the total, blind acceptance of what you've taken in as The One Right Way™.

You should also really listen to Redbeard's point about using methodologies to weed out personal bias in evaluating information. Even Biblical scholarship (the real kind, not the sort you get from fundamentalist universities who say, "I know the Bible is true, so I did some research...", which is the opposite of what I'm talking about) uses the method to investigate. If you bother to look outside of your literalist group-think, you'll be able to find lots of Christians who criticize the literalism of the Bible, who are evolutionary biologists (including my fiancee, by the way), and who will explain to you why what we're telling you is reality.

It doesn't mean giving up the faith, but it does mean that you have uncritically swallowed some things that are demonstrably untrue.

So Jesus Christ is my cult leader? Where might He be residing on earth? Do you have His residence?
The Branch Davidians had a cult leader and his name was David Koresh and even if they thought he was God he wasn't. Actually I remember watching that on TV and my mind when to this verse. Mt 24:26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he [Jesus] is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he [Jesus] is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.


I believe the word or God. I also know that there are different types of writing in the Bible like poems, history, prophecy, and letters. They should all be looked at in light of that. Also I have looked at How the construction of the Bible came about. What I will not do is try to make God's word conform to what I want to be right. I conform to God not the other way around. I am not smarter than the God of the universe and neither is anyone else on this earth.

Yes Jesus is the head of the church. In fact Jesus has all authority in Heaven and on Earth. You are not out of His jurisdiction and in His mercy He want you to come into right relationship with Him. He shed His blood for your sins and He defeated death so that you may live an eternal life enjoying Him. You can try to throw your erroneous labels on my statements about God but in the end the truth prevails. We will all see what is reality and God will be there because He is in control of everything.

[ApeNotKillApe]

If you use science but your starting point is wrong your outcome will always be wrong. Also did you think about fact checking the website, or did you just bring your presuppositions to the website and rule it out because it didn't fit your category of what you feel is non-bias?

He did this on the cross for your sins and If you accept His sacrifice He will also Give yo the Holy Spirit as a down payment. He want to give you amazing things but I find that you just want to play around in the dirt. You can have so much more but you settle for only what you can do. You stunt your thinking by hiding behind "human knowledge and wisdom". 

Why did this celestial being decide that sacrificing himself unto himself was the best way to help mankind? I think, like, medical science would've been much more helpful, or at least some instructions on basic hygiene? Maybe a little astronomy? Please?  Or at the very least, God could've avoided filling the scriptures with scientific inaccuracies? Or was that the fault of humans, and not God? If it's all down human error, what else is wrong? Can any of it be trusted?

[Redbeard The Pink]

I guess you are failing at finding good argumentation against the truth as well.

If you use science but your starting point is wrong your outcome will always be wrong. Also did you think about fact checking the website, or did you just bring your presuppositions to the website and rule it out because it didn't fit your category of what you feel is non-bias?

You act like science is this magical thing and every time you come to a conclusion using Science it must be right. Talk about drinking the kool-aid. "Science says... so it must be right" "it's scientific!" "Science proves _____ so that is how the world works". People are the one behind using the tool of science to figure things out. If people are flawed then their conclusions can be flawed. If people have the presupposition that God doesn't exist it is not a surprise that their conclusions will lead them to that conclusion. To use science you must rely on knowledge, logic, uniformity and you can not account for those things without God. Science can't disprove faith or God or anything God has set up. You can misuse the tool and blindly try to etch out your own understanding of things but you will be wrong.

The truth is God is in control of everything. He see and know everything as well as the real reason why you don't want to follow Him. If you truly used critical thinking you would have to end up at the conclusion that God is real. What is amazing to me is that He cares for you even when you do everything in your power to stick your head in the sand and pretend He isn't there. You treat Him like He is your enemy even though He seek your best. He is the most precious being in all creation. Nothing is worth more than He is and He willingly gives Himself to you. He did this on the cross for your sins and If you accept His sacrifice He will also Give yo the Holy Spirit as a down payment. He want to give you amazing things but I find that you just want to play around in the dirt. You can have so much more but you settle for only what you can do. You stunt your thinking by hiding behind "human knowledge and wisdom".

I hope you have something intelligent to say in response to my post.

Your level of idiocy is honestly getting kind of tiring. 



As I already explained, the point of quoting you and changing your argument was to show you that it's the exact same argument with the exact same level of truth, regardless of which deity you're talking about. The fact that you're still too dumb to realize this, even though I expressly explained it to you, is worrying, to say the least.


Science is not a magical explanation that fills in every gap. That's what your stupid little Gaud is for. Science gathers evidence and posits reasonable explanations for that evidence. Science is trustworthy because it recognizes, accepts, and seeks to gain understanding about what it doesn't know instead of settling on an easy answer that makes a good story for scaring children in the night.


There is no evidence that your Gaud is the source of knowledge or logic. There is no evidence that your Gaud is the source of anything. There is ample evidence to suggest that your Gaud is a fictional character, and the fictional claims regarding him are such that if he did exist, he would be an immoral monster unworthy of worship.


The problem with your whole premise is that I didn't start out with the premise that the Christian Gaud doesn't exist. I started out with the opposite premise. I believed Gaud does exist. Even though I had that presupposition, the evidence against it was such that I could no longer honestly or objectively hold that presupposition and call myself a rational person. I saw the evidence, realized how it added up, and changed my mind. It was exactly like when I stopped believing in Santa Claus, only a little more embarrassing because I'm 28 years old.


You, in all likelihood, are much, much, MUCH older than I am, and yet you still toil under the ignorant delusion of Gaud. You have even less time to enjoy True Reality than I do, and yet you squander it on a religious existence for which there is no reward. Why do you not let us help you? Denounce your Gaud, and accept Reality, so you can be saved from your ignorance and delusion. You've clearly been indoctrinated deeply and forcefully for a long, long time, but I believe in you, and refuse to give up on you. No matter how stubborn and ignorant you are, I won't stop telling you the truth. It's not too late to accept Reality and begin that relationship today.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

So Jesus Christ is my cult leader? Where might He be residing on earth? Do you have His residence?
The Branch Davidians had a cult leader and his name was David Koresh and even if they thought he was God he wasn't. Actually I remember watching that on TV and my mind when to this verse. Mt 24:26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he [Jesus] is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he [Jesus] is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.


I believe the word or God. I also know that there are different types of writing in the Bible like poems, history, prophecy, and letters. They should all be looked at in light of that. Also I have looked at How the construction of the Bible came about. What I will not do is try to make God's word conform to what I want to be right. I conform to God not the other way around. I am not smarter than the God of the universe and neither is anyone else on this earth.

Yes Jesus is the head of the church. In fact Jesus has all authority in Heaven and on Earth. You are not out of His jurisdiction and in His mercy He want you to come into right relationship with Him. He shed His blood for your sins and He defeated death so that you may live an eternal life enjoying Him. You can try to throw your erroneous labels on my statements about God but in the end the truth prevails. We will all see what is reality and God will be there because He is in control of everything.

Redbeard has already said what i would have wanted to say, on this. I do worry about you. The fact that you are a Bible Idolator, who think that the Word is something that must be conformed to over testable reality, indicates serious problems in your life, to me.

Why do you think a cult leader has to still be physically alive and somewhere currently on earth? The whole point of the story told by his disciples is that he's not really  dead, but came back to life and went to heaven but will return "soon".

Like David Koresh, Jesus built a cult of followers and predicted that he would be executed by the authorities, and he was. My point isn't that Koresh is special, it's the opposite: the basic concept of the cult is the same, anywhere you look. Except you don't look, because you have been trained not to look by your religious teachers. They teach that it is a good thing to shut your mind down and "just believe". That is a mark of a cult. They teach you that your cult leader was God incarnate, a divine messenger, even though he was physically human. That is a mark of a cult. They teach you that you are so inherently flawed that you own brain cannot possibly figure out The Truth™, but only to accept it. That is the mark of a cult. When others tell you that you are talking like a cultist, you defensively proclaim the strength of your faith instead of examining the lies you have been told-- like about the "prophecy" about Tyre.

Cult. Cult. Cult.

[robvalue]

Here's what cats have to say about True Christians:

http://youtu.be/Fit7Yg5EjGQ

[Rekeisha]

If you use science but your starting point is wrong your outcome will always be wrong. Also did you think about fact checking the website, or did you just bring your presuppositions to the website and rule it out because it didn't fit your category of what you feel is non-bias?

He did this on the cross for your sins and If you accept His sacrifice He will also Give yo the Holy Spirit as a down payment. He want to give you amazing things but I find that you just want to play around in the dirt. You can have so much more but you settle for only what you can do. You stunt your thinking by hiding behind "human knowledge and wisdom". 

Why did this celestial being decide that sacrificing himself unto himself was the best way to help mankind? I think, like, medical science would've been much more helpful, or at least some instructions on basic hygiene? Maybe a little astronomy? Please?  Or at the very least, God could've avoided filling the scriptures with scientific inaccuracies? Or was that the fault of humans, and not God? If it's all down human error, what else is wrong? Can any of it be trusted?

God is all good and just. When we do our own thing as people we sin against God. Even what we see as harmless is truly disruptive and wrong. The proper response for a just God would be to punish us. Since God is the most valuable being in existence then our sin against Him is great. You can see sin like defacing a master piece. You have to pay a high price in order to rectify what you have done. So if you go against God, the most supreme being, you can not pay that price. So since God is a merciful God He sent His Son to pay the price for you. He died on the cross and rose for the sins you committed. All so that you will be able to enter into His joy. That is why He calls you to repent and believe, not mental assent but put your full faith in Him.

As with all books and document you should read them within the context they were written. The bible isn't a science book it is a book about God and he is supernatural. The bible does talk about hygiene. There are not errors in the bible that change the essential message of the bible.

[ApeNotKillApe]

When we do our own thing as people we sin against God. Even what we see as harmless is truly disruptive and wrong. The proper response for a just God would be to punish us. Since God is the most valuable being in existence then our sin against Him is great. You can see sin like defacing a master piece. You have to pay a high price in order to rectify what you have done. So if you go against God, the most supreme being, you can not pay that price. So since God is a merciful God He sent His Son to pay the price for you.

What is it about you people that encourages this pathological lusting for punishment? Just go to a goddamn bondage club and get it out of your system.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

We're still not talking about Tyre, eh?