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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 24, 2010 at 9:05 pm
^ Among other things...
Rwandrall Wrote:Religion relies on faith, and faith is irrational and illogical. So in this aspect, religion is incompatible with religion.
Religion does not necessarily rely on faith... it could so easily rely on fear, regret, guilt, happiness, insanity, tradition, etc... why would it necessarily rely on faith?
Pretty large assumption about faith... clearly you're defining it differently than I am. If you have defined faith as a 'belief without logical support'... then it is stating the obvious that 'faith' is not logical. But that does not mean that many people have 'faith' as you have defined it.
How would religion be 'incompatible?' with itself? That made no sense to me... perhaps you could rephrase?
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 24, 2010 at 9:16 pm
So how many people have kids and grandkids that can't remember your birthday? That's only 1-2 generations. Nothing comes into existence all on its own. That's absurd.
How many other species can conceive of God? Do we know they don't?
Superstition fuelled by thirst for knowledge, the desire to know, transcend the mundane. Whether anyone understands? ... You're maybe right there.
Science is consensus. Reality does favour the masses. Or the obscenely rich. ''You create your own reality.'' < Mick Jagger
A lie is a lie is a lie. Quite agree.
You mean past history or future history? I believe the jury is still out.
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 24, 2010 at 9:25 pm
Redfish Wrote:o how many people have kids and grandkids that can't remember your birthday? That's only 1-2 generations. Nothing comes into existence all on its own. That's absurd. I don't need children or grandchildren (or even great-grandchildren) to forget my birthday... i do that myself 
Quote:How many other species can conceive of God? Do we know they don't?
No idea. Considering the size of the universe... probably a great number of them. As for those on Earth... probably not many at all. Of course, this has no bearing on wether we know they do or do not... and to reiterate again that doesn't make one right.
Quote:Superstition fuelled by thirst for knowledge, the desire to know, transcend the mundane. Whether anyone understands? ... You're maybe right there.
Scientology?  No, i have no idea what you mean (fully)... though I'm guessing you are referring to religions in general? :S
Quote:Science is consensus. Reality does favour the masses. Or the obscenely rich. ''You create your own reality.'' < Mick Jagger
@ each of those assumptions: Not necessarily. 
Quote:A lie is a lie is a lie. Quite agree.
Or... is it...? 
Quote:You mean past history or future history? I believe the jury is still out.
<Determinism>.
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 24, 2010 at 9:41 pm
(This post was last modified: March 24, 2010 at 10:01 pm by Ace Otana.)
(March 24, 2010 at 9:16 pm)RedFish Wrote: Superstition fuelled by thirst for knowledge, the desire to know, transcend the mundane. Whether anyone understands? ... You're maybe right there.
Science is consensus. Reality does favour the masses. Or the obscenely rich. ''You create your own reality.''
Religion is fuelled by lack of understanding. Once we didn't know anything about the sun or solar system. Religion couldn't explain to us with detail what the solar system is. Religion only gives one simple answer, "godidit" and that's it. It doesn't thirst for knowledge, science does that. If religion really was about gaining knowledge it wouldn't of stood against new ideas like the earth not being the centre of the universe or burning women won't prevent churches from being struck by lightning. Also it wouldn't of stood against evolution. Since religion knows nothing, how can it be right about anything? Why won't it admit to not knowing something?
Reality does not favour the masses as in no matter how many believe in something, it does not make it more real. Like if everyone believed that the earth's core is made entirely of gold, just because you believe it doesn't make it true. If everyone believed in god, they can still all be wrong.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 24, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Quote:So how many people have kids and grandkids that can't remember your birthday? That's only 1-2 generations.
Who claims their grandkids are "inerrant?"
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 25, 2010 at 3:55 am
(This post was last modified: March 25, 2010 at 4:03 am by Rwandrall.)
About Jesus "never happening"
Yes there is a slight difference of testimonies in the Gospel however look at how close they all are ! relating the same story, same birth, same life, same death, same resurection in all four gospels with amazing accuracy: is that not proof Jesus existed, walked amongst us humans ? Also, the Church, that Jesus himself predicted "Peter you are my stone and on this stone i will build my church" (that might be wrong im translating from the french version), is proof that Jesus was there.
@ Tackattack, no i didnt mean religion is incompatible with religion, i was tired, i meant reason is incompatible with religion 
(March 24, 2010 at 9:05 pm)Saerules Wrote: ^ Among other things...
Rwandrall Wrote:Religion relies on faith, and faith is irrational and illogical. So in this aspect, religion is incompatible with religion.
Religion does not necessarily rely on faith... it could so easily rely on fear, regret, guilt, happiness, insanity, tradition, etc... why would it necessarily rely on faith?
Pretty large assumption about faith... clearly you're defining it differently than I am. If you have defined faith as a 'belief without logical support'... then it is stating the obvious that 'faith' is not logical. But that does not mean that many people have 'faith' as you have defined it.
How would religion be 'incompatible?' with itself? That made no sense to me... perhaps you could rephrase?
(atheist speaking)
Sorry i dont understand your idea of religion...if you have fear or regret or guilt, and believe because of that, how can you not have faith ? i mean, believing in God is believing in something without evidence and that is faith isnt it ?
(March 24, 2010 at 7:29 pm)Ace Wrote: (March 24, 2010 at 7:14 pm)Rwandrall Wrote: my evidence is the whole universe ! why is there such a thing as life ? why is there only one species that has intelligence and understanding of God, us humans ? Also, the fact that so many people believe in a God is proof that he is real: think about it, religion has been here for thousands of years, do you really think those BILLIONS of people can be wrong ?
Oooh I love this part. This is kinda like frodo giving us target practice.
Ok, the universe cannot prove the existance of an intelligent being. Since it is capable of coming into existance all on it's own. Kinda like how a planet forms on it's own. We aren't the only species with high intelligance and our so called "understanding of god" is nothing more than pure imgaination that is fueled by lack of knowledge and understanding. Also, reality does not favour the masses. For a lie is a lie no matter how many believe it. Many billions believing in the same thing can still all be wrong about it. Religion has been around for thousands of years and knows very little about reality. As history will show.
Well that twas fun.
Okay, then explain to me how, in a universe where there are nothing but inanimate atoms (although we guess other planets have life, it has not been proven) how can there be life ? if the universe is only composed of neutrinos, electrons and protons (have i got them right in english ? >.<), how can there be a cell ? Also..the universe was created by the Big Bang ? yeah, this immense universe was created when nothing exploded to become everything...? everything has a beginning, except God, who is eternal
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 25, 2010 at 4:26 am
believing in something without evidence is blind faith.
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 25, 2010 at 4:59 am
Rwandrall Wrote:atheist speaking)
Sorry i dont understand your idea of religion... if you have fear or regret or guilt, and believe because of that, how can you not have faith? i mean, believing in God is believing in something without evidence and that is faith isnt it ? Note what I said here, in response to what you said:
Rwandrall Wrote:Religion relies on faith, and faith is irrational and illogical. So in this aspect, religion is incompatible with religion.
Saerules Wrote:Religion does not necessarily rely on faith... it could so easily rely on fear, regret, guilt, happiness, insanity, tradition, etc... why would it necessarily rely on faith?
I did not state that faith relied on itself (tautologically true much?)... I stated that religion (that being an organization of people sharing similar faiths) does not necessarily rely on faith. Fear, regret, guilt, happiness, insanity, tradition, etcetera all serve to 'propagate?' religion. That's what I meant by religion does not necessarily rely on faith... though that is not to suggest faith is not a crucial element of it.
Also... belief as far as I am concerned is faith. But it depends on how you are using the word as to wether the above italic is correct or not. But then... if you are using faith as belief... why even bring it up? It's a vital process for the formulation of knowledge... without which knowledge (the assumption that one is correct (that a thing is true, if you will)) could not exist. However, if you are using 'faith' to specifically denote belief void of or notwithstanding evidence... then fear, guilt, and regret all serve as justifications for the belief (and therefore evidence, though not necessarily good evidence)... and therefore by your definition cannot be 'true?' faith.
Again... everything is dependent on how you are defining faith. I agree with tacky's statement above ("believing in something without evidence is blind faith")... it is specifically belief for no reason whatsoever... not even a belief because it 'feels right'. So again, what precisely do you mean by "faith"? Further... does your definition of faith actually apply to the circumstances you are attributing it to? (eg: I could define faith as a 'purple monkey'... but that hardly applies to a Christian's belief in a loving God. )
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 25, 2010 at 9:19 am
What the hell is an unconditional atheist?
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RE: Ill pretend to be a religious person
March 25, 2010 at 10:55 am
Quote:Yes there is a slight difference of testimonies in the Gospel
No. There are major fucking contradictions. Your fairy tale writers cannot even agree on his last words or how many people saw the so-called "empty tomb."
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