General argument for Islam.

[Mudhammam]

It doesn't matter if you believe in Islam, Christianity, or Bacchism, Mystic. You could interchange whatever deity or spiritual phraseology you prefer, and you'd still be saying essentially the same thing. As an atheist, I'm no less enlightened about goodness and justice than you, I just prefer terminology that relates exclusively to the world of my fellow beings and takes into consideration the last 600 years of scientific progress, rather than obfuscate by using mythology or metaphors. Plain language is more effective.

[Mystic]

In the introduction to "Secret of the Salah of the gnostics", there is hadith from Imam Ali where describing high servants of God that reached certainty and high state of piety, states "They are companions to this world with their bodies while their spirits are attached to/suspended on the highest place"

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Another place he states "their hearts are in paradise".

[pocaracas]

In the introduction to "Secret of the Salah of the gnostics", there is hadith from Imam Ali where describing high servants of God that reached certainty and high state of piety, states "They are companions to this world with their bodies while their spirits are attached to/suspended on the highest place"

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Another place he states "their hearts are in paradise".

And, just because it's written there, it's automagically true, huh?
I still see only people trying to convince other people of what they claim.

[jesus_wept]

We don't even know its written there without sources. He keeps telling us all these hadith's and translations exist which agree with him but we don't actually know that they do.

[pocaracas]

We don't even know its written there without sources. He keeps telling us all these hadith's and translations exist which agree with him but we don't actually know that they do.

Well... he does say 'In the introduction to "Secret of the Salah of the gnostics"'...

According to google, it should be somewhere here: http://www.al-islam.org/adab-as-salat-di...troduction

[jesus_wept]

Yeah but he's also told me that he has a special translation of the wisdom about beating your wife and hadith's to prove it but I haven't seen them anywhere.

But the point is that its not my job to go round researching his nonsense to see if its real or not.

[robvalue]

The very basic problem is that I don't care about anything these books say, unless it has been objectively verified. Or happens to be some handy tip or something that I quite like. And even then, I only care about those parts and not the rest of it. I'd only view the rest as some kind of social commentary at best.

Until someone can give me a good reason to do otherwise, we're kind of stuck. I'm never going to accept supernatural claims until a method has been devised which makes it possible to test them. Right now, there isn't one. I'm certainly not going to believe them at face value from a book that happens to get a few other things right. I don't care who wrote it, when or why.

[jesus_wept]

Yeah but he's also told me that he has a special translation of the wisdom about beating your wife and hadith's to prove it but I haven't seen them anywhere.

But the point is that its not my job to go round researching his nonsense to see if its real or not.

And unless I'm missing something and don't know how to work the search feature on my browser anymore, his quote is not there.

Presumably we have a bad translation or something...

[Mystic]

We don't even know its written there without sources. He keeps telling us all these hadith's and translations exist which agree with him but we don't actually know that they do.

Well... he does say 'In the introduction to "Secret of the Salah of the gnostics"'...

According to google, it should be somewhere here: http://www.al-islam.org/adab-as-salat-di...troduction

That's a different book. I have one in Arabic that is similar book but he went into more detail in that one, and some less detail in other things he talked about in the Adab. The Arabic one I have the hadith is mentioned by other then Khomeini but the one introducing his book.

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Yeah but he's also told me that he has a special translation of the wisdom about beating your wife and hadith's to prove it but I haven't seen them anywhere.

But the point is that its not my job to go round researching his nonsense to see if its real or not.

And unless I'm missing something and don't know how to work the search feature on my browser anymore, his quote is not there.

Presumably we have a bad translation or something...

Here you can check out this thread: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/2349...hia-islam/

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And, just because it's written there, it's automagically true, huh?
I still see only people trying to convince other people of what they claim.

I'm explaining that there is spiritual realities, metaphysical realities, and "heaven/sky/ascension" isn't all literal.

I also found a hadith that talked about why it's mustahab (loved by God but not obligatory)to say seven takbirs (God is Greater) in start of Salah, and it was said because there is 7 earths and 7 heavens and 7 veils of light and talked about unveiling/ascending with each takbeer.

[Mystic]

Actually regarding "highest place" it should be "highest assembly" (maleal alaa).