General argument for Islam.

[watchamadoodle]

Great, I typed out an entire reply and it got obliterated when I posted. 


No idea what happened. 

That's what you should expect if you are talking trash about Allah

[Brian37]

The wisdom of Quran lies in the favor God bestows upon humanity through his chosen ones.  He made love of them the love of his obedience and inclination to Worshiping him sincerely and acknowledging his light, remembering the path towards him, and the praiseworthy station of his beautiful names.  He emphasized on their path of struggle in God's way, commanding towards good and forbidding the evil, and that they are those given the knowledge standing up for justice. He linked recognizing their path with recognizing his path, obedience to them to his obedience, and love of them to love of his face and beautiful names. He made them doors to his knowledge and unseen wisdom and truth.


Say: No wage do I ask for it except the love of (my) near relatives.
Verily God chose Adam and Nuh and the family of Ibrahim and the family of Imran above the worlds.
Say: No wage do I ask for it except that who wants to, to take a path to his Lord.
Say: Whatever wage I asked of you it is for yourselves, verily my wage is with God.
These are they whom God guided therefore (Mohammad) follow their guidance. Say: No wage do I ask for it that it is only a reminder/remembrance to the nations/worlds. 
Or do you ask them a wage, then verily the wage of your Lord is better and he is the best of those who provide sustenance. And verily you call them to a straight path.
And you do not ask them a wage for it except that it be a remembrance/reminder to the worlds.
God only desires to keep the uncleanness away from you O people of the household and purifies you a thorough purification.
How does he have authority over us when we have more right to authority and has not been given abundance in wealth, verily God has chosen him above you, and made him superior in knowledge and physique, and God gives his authority to whom he pleases, and God is encompassing with his grace, knowledgeable. 
Then we inherited the book to those whom we chosen of our servants
Obey God and obey the Messenger and those who possess the authority from you
Therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know
Peace be upon the family of Yaseen
Say: If you love God, then follow me, God will love you and forgive your sins.
Or do the envy the people for what God has given them out of his grace? Then verily we gave the family of Ibrahim the book and the wisdom, and we gave them a great authority.
 And on the day we will call from every a people a witness from themselves
And on the day we will call every human with it's Imam
And we made them Imams who guide by our command
So guard (with regards to your duty to) God and obey me. Verily God is my god and your god so worship him, this is a straight path.
So follow me, verily this is a straight path.
Verily we believed in the Lord of the world. The Lord of Musa and Harun.
You two and those who follow you both will be the victorious
Peace be upon the servants that God has chosen
And from who we have a created are a people who guide by the truth and by it do justice

God bestows, Allah bestows, Yahweh bestows, Buddha bestows, Vishnu bestows.

Or, you like what you believe like every other fan of every religion. You got stuck on pretty like all the others so you like they think you have a patent on good. 

Nope, our species good is in us, not old comic books, not yours not any.

[DeistPaladin]

Great, I typed out an entire reply and it got obliterated when I posted. 


No idea what happened. 

That's what you should expect if you are talking trash about Allah

It would seem that Allah, like his followers and all other gods, thrives on censorship instead of honest debate.

[Minimalist]

Fuck allah and his pedo prophet, mohammed.

Hey look.  Went right through.  What's wrong, allah?  Asleep at the switch?

[DeistPaladin]

Fuck allah and his pedo prophet, mohammed.

Hey look.  Went right through.  What's wrong, allah?  Asleep at the switch?

I think you scare Allah in a way that I couldn't. 

[Chas]

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I don't think you got the point at all. 

First of all, it's not a matter of caring. It's a matter of scale. The universe is 13.5 billion years old. We existed for maybe 100K of that. The universe includes hundreds of billions of galaxies. We occupy a microscopic spec of one. 

So we should be occupying a bunch of galaxies to be significant?

I don't understand the point of this.

It's not all about us. 

I don't believe it is all about us. I believe God creates infinite universes, and in these universes, there is sentient life in different galaxies. I believe God creates infinite souls.

Second, why is your god so insecure that he even wants, never mind needs, our worship and love? The Islamo-Christian view of God is a deeply insecure but powerful being that can create a universe but needs validation from comparitively microscopic beings. It's kind of touching in a strange way but not believable. I can understand why a religion would create a god like this but not why God would actually be like this. 

That's a straw man. God doesn't gain or lose anything from our worship and love, but we gain something, and if we neglect it, we are in a state of corruption. God created us with a link to him, and if we neglect that link, we are doing injustice and being ungrateful to a huge favor. He sends Prophets to remind people and re-establish the link.

Third, there's no reason to believe in this personal god. Stories of miracles are either not proven to be true or proven not to be true. We live in a natural universe governed by predictable laws and best understood by science and reason. Theists come up with all manner of excuses for this. Catholics say it's "free will". Some Protestants say "mysterious ways". Muslims often say "it's a test". Occam's Razor says it's exactly what it looks like: the reason there doesn't seem to be a personal god is because there is not a personal god. 

I think the laws of the universe as constantly imposed by God. I don't think anything by it's nature just has laws innate in it. These laws God has put upon everything and is constantly establishing them. Without God, there would be no laws. 

It's God that keeps the bird in the air and the whole universe in place, by constantly maintaining the universe in the way he does. Given that is the case, he can always break laws and cause miracles.

Fourth, if God WERE to create a religion, there would be one (1) religion, one (1) holy book and that holy book, authored by the Creator, would contain knowledge, wisdom and morality that would astound people even today.

How do you know this about God and people? How do you know God would make sure only to have one holy book in the world forcing all people not to have their own holy books and how do you know if he written a holy book with exalted wisdom and a nature beyond human capability, that all would acknowledge it?

This holy book would have been published all over the world, even before these cultures had any contact with each other. Instead, we see different religions with different holy books as they arise from different cultures and the only way they spread is by human efforts. 

So would he force all people to keep to the holy book, and follow it? What if they distort it, God would force the people not to do that? Why do you say this?

The "morality" of these religions focus on the "evils" of victimless crimes such as blasphemy, apostasy and idolatry while exhalting useless "virtues" such as rituals and adherence to dietary taboos. Since human morality has progressed since the authoring of these books, the values often seem barbaric and backward to modern sensibilities. 

Most humans don't see these things as barbaric and backward. It's a minority that does. 

Fifth, the absence of a true religion does not create a meaningless or amoral existence. We are community animals and we have a sense of empathy and conscience for one another. We form civilizations and make laws that help to alleviate conflict and suffering. We don't always get it right but we're getting better. Barbaric practices that used to be commonplace, such as slavery or wars of aggression, once sacred, then defended, then debated, are now condemned by civilized society and we're seeking to eliminate them. We are not just evolving biologically but also morally and intellectually. 

Advancement in some areas doesn't mean we advancing in all areas. Another thing is this is only this century. What about in the past. Did people not need guidance in the past when there is bunch of superstition and false religions?

Building upon the foundation that we are given, seeking in our own small way to make the universe a little better than when we found it, is purpose enough. 

I disagree. The relationship with God and linking to him, is much higher then just making the world a little bit better.   But this takes a lover to understand. When you are in love, that beloved is so central to you. The problem again Deism is not in love with the Divine. It doesn't understand intimacy with God and neither does it understand the close friends of God relationship to other humans.

---

[CapnAwesome]

and next week MysticKnight is back to deism, then back to Agnosticism, then back to Islam again. C'mon, deep down you know it's bullshit. The Qu'ran isn't special, it's a shoddy remake of the bible.

[Minimalist]

Which is pretty shoddy to begin with.

[dyresand]

and next week MysticKnight is back to deism, then back to Agnosticism, then back to Islam again. C'mon, deep down you know it's bullshit. The Qu'ran isn't special, it's a shoddy remake of the bible.

 He should ditch it and join us on the Intellectual side. You get a black robe and a dark corner to stand in. 

[robvalue]

FSM is God, but you must believe in the pasta qualities of God or else it won't be evidence for you.