Transgendered children

[Longhorn]

The early example in this thread is of a pair of lesbians likely educating their son on the evils of toxic masculinity, and without the boy having any male role models, he is likely registering that his mothers give him more stuff and pay more attention to him when he pretends to be what they wanted him to be. 

How many medical studies do you need to know that children make shit up and pretend to be other people, or that we shouldn't inject hormones into pre-pubescent children except in very rare cases sought for by a practicing doctor with ample agreement with several psychologists?

The mothers say that one of the first things Thomas told them when he learned sign language aged three - because of a speech impediment - was, 'I am a girl'.

[...]

At age seven, after threatening genital mutilation on himself, psychiatrists diagnosed Thomas with gender identity disorder.

(Bold added by me)

Money suggested children might have awareness of, and attach some significance to gender, as early as 18 months to two years; Lawrence Kohlberg argues that gender identity does not form until age three. It is widely agreed that core gender identity is firmly formed by age three. (See sources)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_i..._formation

...?

[SteelCurtain]

Wait, why didn't Wikipedia cite Violet? Wikipedia is fake news.

[Violet]

Just stating the facts of the case, just like you.

First you come in with the bullshit of "They have no male role model!" which is the classic homophobe excuse for why Lesbians shouldn't be allowed to adopt.  Of course this is FUCKING IGNORING the fact that these two women have OTHER SONS.  Cause you know, only dad's can be male role models in a child's life.  Not siblings, teachers, friends, Uncles, or anything else... And of course you make the assinine assumption that these women hate men because they take a course in gender studies.  Which makes me think you're not just a self-hating bisexual (or lesbian), you're probably also a self hating woman.  Because you know... women who hate men totally adopt three male children, instead of... you know, adopting three girls.

The child in question doesn't have a male role model... since when has a similarly aged sibling counted as a 'role model' on level with a male authority figure? I suppose it can happen, but I personally wouldn't put all of my hope into another child that doesn't have a male authority figure. My opinion is that it is inferior to be without a worthy role model of both sexes, and while they don't have to be parents to begin with: they do, in my mind, need to be stable, to have a significant level of contact with the child, and exhibit the respectable traits of both sexes to the child.

As for the psychological profiling of me, all I can say to you is that you're really really far off, and I see no reason to defend myself from your strange interpretations of my reality Classic homophobe...? Shakin ma damn 'ed. You should slow down some, really.

The fact is you don't have a goddamn clue about any of this, and you just made shit up.  So I made shit up too.  If you're going to be a fucking ignorant sack of shit, I'm going to treat you like one.

Really? Imagine that you would make shit up to get back at having perceived me making shit up. The 9 year old child has pink hair, do you think that's healthy and that they're going to grow up to be a successful member of society? Been loosely following the story for years... I just can't be arsed to fight with someone so miserable to be around, Divinity Perhaps try a different approach next time.

I certainly hope that you won't treat any of your children to the poisoned passion you're exhibiting

---

Wait, why didn't Wikipedia cite Violet? Wikipedia is fake news.

I certainly wouldn't pin my PHD on it, SteelCurtain. I remember back when teachers were utterly unwilling to allow wikipedia as a source.

I daresay that is still the correct course of action. As a source amalgamation it is fine, but too many citations lie behind paywalls. Academic articles doing that is pretty absurd to me.

[Regina]

I don't see anything wrong with pink hair (other than that it's been really hijacked by the worst of the SJWs of recent years).

I think children transitioning has to be a case-by-case basis. I get the argument for being cautious about letting them transition, I actually don't think just any child should be allowed to on a whim because they're going through a kind of femme phase. However, if you've got a kid who has been consistently saying from age 3 down to age 11 that they feel like living as the opposite sex, then I don't think that's a "phase" and I can take that a bit more seriously.

[Violet]

Vae, you channeling Milo Y these days?

Our opinions couldn't be further apart in regards to transgenderism... but I can certainly understand the Right's general backlash towards trannies as a result of pushes by transtrenders and feminists. I can't respect that crap either.

Lot of frustration from the fact that they claim to represent me. I'm not particularly close to Blaire White either, given my willingness to say that I've never been a boy in my life (regardless of appearances and treatment by society)... but I still wouldn't want my parents to have just jumped right on board when I first told them.

I think the situation is complex, and a simple answer isn't possible without doing severe injustice to a number of children and adults. There's a solid contingent of me that says 'fuck it, let the damage be on their own heads' level of libertarianism... but there's another part of me that doesn't want to see children suffer. As I say, it's a complex issue. Hence my weighing in on it from the angle I feel is responsibly sane.

---

I don't see anything wrong with pink hair (other than that it's been really hijacked by the worst of the SJWs of recent years).

God you and me both... I've got to lose the purple until this recent crap is over.

I think children transitioning has to be a case-by-case basis. I get the argument for being cautious about letting them transition, I actually don't think just any child should be allowed to on a whim because they're going through a kind of femme phase. However, if you've got a kid who has been consistently saying from age 3 down to age 11 that they feel like living as the opposite sex then I don't think that's a "phase" and I can take that a bit more seriously.

Shit yes, agreed: there absolutely has to be a stability component to this. How long and to what degree is a real debate that I feel really needs to happen... but regardless it has to be a part of the process in my mind.

Thank you for coming by with your opinion, and pushing this in a more constructive direction I really appreciate it.

[SteelCurtain]

Wait, why didn't Wikipedia cite Violet? Wikipedia is fake news.

I certainly wouldn't pin my PHD on it, SteelCurtain. I remember back when teachers were utterly unwilling to allow wikipedia as a source.

I daresay that is still the correct course of action. As a source amalgamation it is fine, but too many citations lie behind paywalls. Academic articles doing that is pretty absurd to me.

I remember when foolish people tried to cite Wikipedia as a source, instead of the list of academic sources neatly compiled for you at the bottom of the page. I also remember when GeoCities was a thing. The internet has changed.

Downplaying the validity of the content within Wikipedia because at one time it was a new thing and more unreliable is a sure sign that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and are grasping at straws to maintain your position.

But I'll let you to it.

[Divinity]

The child in question doesn't have a male role model... since when has a similarly aged sibling counted as a 'role model' on level with a male authority figure? I suppose it can happen, but I personally wouldn't put all of my hope into another child that doesn't have a male authority figure. My opinion is that it is inferior to be without a worthy role model of both sexes, and while they don't have to be parents to begin with: they do, in my mind, need to be stable, to have a significant level of contact with the child, and exhibit the respectable traits of both sexes to the child.

As for the psychological profiling of me, all I can say to you is that you're really really far off, and I see no reason to defend myself from your strange interpretations of my reality Classic homophobe...? Shakin ma damn 'ed. You should slow down some, really.


Really? Imagine that you would make shit up to get back at having perceived me making shit up. The 9 year old child has pink hair, do you think that's healthy and that they're going to grow up to be a successful member of society? Been loosely following the story for years... I just can't be arsed to fight with someone so miserable to be around, Divinity Perhaps try a different approach next time.

I certainly hope that you won't treat any of your children to the poisoned passion you're exhibiting :

Yes, you're a homophobe (Transphobic too, obviously).  Much like Milo is, despite being gay.  You're pretty fucked up.  Children can have role models outside of their parents.  And yes, an older sibling can be a role model.  If you think otherwise, you're stupid in addition to being ignorant.  To think otherwise is to shit on gay and lesbian parents everywhere.  So you can kindly go fuck yourself.

You made shit up, and made dumbass conclusions. 

Oh no!  The child has pink hair!  How AWFUL!  You sound like a miserable cunt.  Pink hair?!  What's next?  Coloring outside the lines?!  Coming home at 10:02 instead of 10:00?!  THE MADNESS!  THE INSANITY!

[I_am_not_mafia]

I look forward to seeing the many medical studies that you must have read for you to speak with such authority ...

How many medical studies do you need to know that children make shit up and pretend to be other people, or that we shouldn't inject hormones into pre-pubescent children except in very rare cases sought for by a practicing doctor with ample agreement with several psychologists?

This shows that you are ignorant of the subject. The children are put on hormone blockers to delay puberty until they are old enough to decide for themselves.

Or are you saying that all transgendered children should be forced to go through puberty despite the massive increase in risk of suicide and the extra physical pain and emotional distress that this causes?

[The Grand Nudger]

Our opinions couldn't be further apart in regards to transgenderism... but I can certainly understand the Right's general backlash towards trannies as a result of pushes by transtrenders and feminists.  I can't respect that crap either.

pushes to what.....?   Stop treating you as second class citizens (or worse)?

What is it, exactly, that you're talking about..and when you say understand do you mean "understand" like I understand why the grand wizard of the kkk would say what he does..or understand as in empathize and legitimize?

[Violet]

At age seven, after threatening genital mutilation on himself, psychiatrists diagnosed Thomas with gender identity disorder.

(Bold added by me)

Money suggested children might have awareness of, and attach some significance to gender, as early as 18 months to two years; Lawrence Kohlberg argues that gender identity does not form until age three. It is widely agreed that core gender identity is firmly formed by age three. (See sources)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_i..._formation

...?

Money? John Money? Oh nonononononononono. I absolutely don't respect the man responsible for the deaths (by suicide) of many intersex children/boys with botched circumscisions after he decided that gender could be decided for a human being, and was proven horribly horribly wrong Please tell me that information isn't based on the work of that man, who went uncontested in this until Dimond perfomed the ever glossed-over follow-up... is the information that we're going to cite here.

My experience with gender dysphoria was that I never really grasped it until I was 13 and was laying next to a guy I'd just had sex with, and he asked if I was gay. Sure, there were times I probably could have figured it out before then... but not by 7. Not by 8. Puberty made me self-aware, until then I really didn't care much, at least not in a stable manner. That I preferred to play female video game characters in literally every instance didn't enter into my mind. Until puberty happens, there's too much subject to change, and it's too hard to pin this kind of thing down. That is my opinion (however much of a pedophile it makes me? I still don't get that one, I really do still want to hear where the hell that came from, Divinity).

As for Thomas (or whatever they're called now), perhaps they truly are suffering from gender dysphoria. However, I'm not unaware of the failures of our mental health system, and I'm not unaware of the many things about this particular case that overall make me wary and concerned for the child. I know that there are feminists who adopt boys to teach them how to not be rapist or indeed masculine at all, and as I say: this case is hella suspect. Letting a child have pink hair? That really doesn't make me feel that the parents much care for how their child is going to do when they hit the 'real world'... it's a frightening case. It's the best I can do to hope that the child is legitimately suffering from gender dysphoria, and to resent the parents for rushing into this. So they threatened genital mutilation: who the hell even told them pussies were a thing before they reached puberty? Irresponsible.