Transgendered children

[SteelCurtain]

She'll be smaller in stature. But she'd go through puberty just the same. And will no ill effects on her reproductive ability.

[Neo-Scholastic]

No one is born the wrong sex. You're either XX or XY. A person's sex is a fixed biological fact. Sure you can change the outward appearance by surgery. And you can artificially suppress or stimulate the natural expression of their biology but in the end you remain the sex you were born. So-called sex change measures just disguise the reality. Gender is a social construct. So the "solution" for the transgendered is to overcome the approved cultural roles of femininity and masculinity society forces on us all.

Once you start talking about being one sex in the wrong body it starts to get metaphysical very fast. I doubt any atheist really wants to go there no matter how politically correct they are.

[rexbeccarox]

Gosh thanks, Doctor Wooters. Your unbacked assertions have made everything so clear!

[Napoléon]

You know what, I actually agree with Wooters (don't hate me).

Sex is fixed. You're born a boy or a girl. Who can really deny this? I am in disagreement when people are allowed to change their birth certificates to change the sex that they are born as. I think this is actually really wrong. I do understand how people can grow up, have a sex change and then have issues legally (like marriage etc.). But there should be another way around it.

You're essentially changing your personal history to suit your own preferences. I don't think this is all that right. That's just my opinion though. What is really of concern is gender. Gender is different to sex is it not?

Gender means more about what a person thinks inside their head. At least that's my understanding of it. Sex is something you're born with. I agree it can be changed medically later in life, but if you're born a man, you're always born a man IMHO.

[Pizza]

Gosh thanks, Doctor Wooters. Your unbacked assertions have made everything so clear!

He doesn't even understand the distinction in terms between gender and sex. I guess this to be expected since he lives in medieval Europe times.

[Napoléon]

Gosh thanks, Doctor Wooters. Your unbacked assertions have made everything so clear!

He doesn't even understand the distinction in terms between gender and sex. I guess this to be expected since he lives in medieval Europe times.

How do you define it then?

[Pizza]

He doesn't even understand the distinction in terms between gender and sex. I guess this to be expected since he lives in medieval Europe times.

How do you define it then?

Sex is the biological. Gender is the expression. You're man if you express yourself as such.
What if you went to the doctor and he said you have a rare condition in which you have a penis and etc but have the chromosome XX? Are you a woman?

[SteelCurtain]

[Tiberius]

Sex is fixed. You're born a boy or a girl. Who can really deny this?

Nobody is denying this. People who undergo sex change operations aren't in denial about that fact that they were born a boy or a girl; it's the fact that they were born a boy but feel that they are a girl (or vice versa). The sex change operation is to make their outward appearance match how they feel.

I am in disagreement when people are allowed to change their birth certificates to change the sex that they are born as. I think this is actually really wrong. I do understand how people can grow up, have a sex change and then have issues legally (like marriage etc.). But there should be another way around it.

You're essentially changing your personal history to suit your own preferences. I don't think this is all that right. That's just my opinion though. What is really of concern is gender. Gender is different to sex is it not?

It's not changing your personal history to suit your own preferences, as should be obvious by the fact that I can't go and change my own sex on my birth certificate without first having a sex change. You can only change that detail (as far as I'm aware) if you first actually change your sex, so it's nothing to do with personal preference, and everything to do with anatomy.

In a sense it's changing "history" because yes the person wasn't born with the sex they currently are, but that brings me on nicely to my next point, which is that birth certificates aren't just used as a document proving you were born; they are used as documents which carry basic information about the person, such as your name, eye color, etc. A birth certificate is a valid form of identity in a number of situations, and having invalid information on it doesn't make sense from a identification point of view.

In addition, if you change your name legally, in most places you can request that your birth certificate is updated for precisely these reasons. If you can change your birth name, you should be able to change your birth sex (especially since changing your name is far far easier to do).

Now, the hospital records of your birth will probably have your actual birth name and sex, and I doubt it's very easy to get those documents changed, so there will always be some kind of "birth accurate" record, but I think it's understandable at least why people are allowed to change their sex on their birth certificates when birth certificates are used as identification.

[Napoléon]

In a sense it's changing "history" because yes the person wasn't born with the sex they currently are, but that brings me on nicely to my next point, which is that birth certificates aren't just used as a document proving you were born; they are used as documents which carry basic information about the person, such as your name, eye color, etc. A birth certificate is a valid form of identity in a number of situations, and having invalid information on it doesn't make sense from a identification point of view.

In addition, if you change your name legally, in most places you can request that your birth certificate is updated for precisely these reasons. If you can change your birth name, you should be able to change your birth sex (especially since changing your name is far far easier to do).

This is where I think it's stupid then. Shouldn't birth certificates instead list these changes as... well changes, instead of just blanket saying "this person was born a boy", even though they weren't?