A Weird Post-Religion Thing, Maybe Help?

[Pyrrho]

... My gut reaction is to raise them Christian ...  I want them to form their own opinions ...

Which is it that you want to do?  Raise them to believe something in particular, or try to get them to form their own opinions?

[downbeatplumb]

My wife is disappointed that the kids aren't following her spiritual path and instead don't give a shit like me, to the extent of mocking the RE teachers. We've had letters.

[henryp]

I've had a weird situation while detoxing from Christianity.

I de-converted from Christianity starting about 4 years ago, gradually, through education and seeking. However, even though I know what is true, I still find myself inwardly hoping my young children will grow up Christian. All I can figure is that it is some kind of bet hedging. Has anybody else experienced this? It is a very uncomfortable thing to mentally fight.

My guess is that there's a bit of nervousness because we don't really know what to expect from nonreligious grade schoolers. It's sort of uncharted territory, as this is or is close to the first generation where they are going to make up a big portion of the school population.   

I think there is a positive stereotype of christian upbringing that leads to nice kids who do nice things and live nice happy lives with other nice people.  I don't know if there even is a stereotype for Atheist kids yet.  I do know the stereotype of the Atheist adult, as a pretentious butthurt asshole like Hitchens or Mahr probably hurts the cause.  But it'll be a lot different I suspect with 2nd generation atheists maybe.  Or maybe not.  That's probably the rub.

[AFTT47]

I'm not a parent and would never want to be so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I cannot see the value of raising a child to believe something that you yourself consider to be bullshit. Inform them of it, sure. Explain to them that it is a complex subject that adults wrestle with. Explain that they will have to decide for themselves what makes the most sense.

I imagine you will also have pointed questions to deal with regarding Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

I would not raise my child to believe in bullshit. I think that's child abuse. Just my opinion.

[Whateverist]

I'm not a parent and would never want to be so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I cannot see the value of raising a child to believe something that you yourself consider to be bullshit. Inform them of it, sure. Explain to them that it is a complex subject that adults wrestle with. Explain that they will have to decide for themselves what makes the most sense.

I imagine you will also have pointed questions to deal with regarding Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

I would not raise my child to believe in bullshit. I think that's child abuse. Just my opinion.

Interestingly my youngest brother whose kids are like my grand kids ( 8 and 5), is a self avowed atheist. But has decided not to be upfront about it with them for now since it would pose difficult social interactions for them which they aren't ready to deal with. Not a great solution but I understand the impulse.

[cocunningham]

I can relate because as a child I found comfort that when I lost loved ones they went to heaven and watched over me.  I have an 18 month old and another on the way and my wife and I are still discussing how we are going to raise them.  My gut reaction is to raise them Christian and when they are older and able to understand my theories explain them and the evidence that led me there.  I may be underestimating their mental fortitude or may just be acting selfish to avoid the hard conversations.  I want them to form their own opinions and will support them no matter what decision they make but while they are at such an impressionable age I'm not sure the right lessons to teach them.

Don't raise them as anything, let them make their own decisions.  There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for the validity of Christianity or any other world religion. Why would you lie to them and tell them otherwise?

Well for a number of reasons. First being atheist I do not believe in a God or afterlife so i do not worry about my child being damned for worshiping a false god. So I have no problem with my children believing whatever they want as long as they don't use those beliefs as justification to harm another physically or emotionally.

Second I was raised Christian and came to my own theories on my own following evidence. Would it not make sense for them to learn the principals of religions and when they have doubts and questions encourage them to seek the answer on their own. As I said before I don't have a problem with religion as long as it's not a media used to cause suffering or personal gain. I just want to instill in them the strength to challenge the status quo and find their own path wherever it leads them.

Third and this is where I feel like I'm being selfish. My wife as a rare untreatable condition where her immune system will attack her organs. It is not unlikely my wife may die when my children are young. And if I raise them atheist I will tell them that while everything that made up their mother still is and always will be in some form, but the organs that made up her consciousness have ceased to function so in that sense she had ceased to exist. The idea of that conversation scares the hell out of me. I would much rather tell them she was in heaven and would watch over them at last until they were old enough to cope a little better.

But I still have not made a decision. Those are just the reasons I'm considering it.

---

... My gut reaction is to raise them Christian ...  I want them to form their own opinions ...

Which is it that you want to do?  Raise them to believe something in particular, or try to get them to form their own opinions?

I'm more meaning as when they are young raise them as christian because at age 8 they are not going to have a good foundation of understanding but as they learn more and find gaps or inconsistencies encourage them to seek their own answers and support them on whatever path that takes them.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

I've had a weird situation while detoxing from Christianity.

I de-converted from Christianity starting about 4 years ago, gradually, through education and seeking. However, even though I know what is true, I still find myself inwardly hoping my young children will grow up Christian. All I can figure is that it is some kind of bet hedging. Has anybody else experienced this? It is a very uncomfortable thing to mentally fight.

IMO the best advice in the entire Bible that you can give your kids is found in Proverbs 1:8-19.  If they adopt nothing but that they will be just fine.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...EB;KJV;NLT

[Cephus]

Don't raise them as anything, let them make their own decisions.  There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever for the validity of Christianity or any other world religion. Why would you lie to them and tell them otherwise?

Well for a number of reasons.  First being atheist I do not believe in a God or afterlife so i do not worry about my child being damned for worshiping a false god.  So I have no problem with my children believing whatever they want as long as they don't use those beliefs as justification to harm another physically or emotionally.

Second I was raised Christian and came to my own theories on my own following evidence. Would it not make sense for them to learn the principals of religions and when they have doubts and questions encourage them to seek the answer on their own.   As I said before I don't have a problem with religion as long as it's not a media used to cause suffering or personal gain.  I just want to instill in them the strength to challenge the status quo and find their own path wherever it leads them.

Third and this is where I feel like I'm being selfish.   My wife as a rare untreatable condition where her immune system will attack her organs.  It is not unlikely my wife may die when my children are young.  And if I  raise them atheist I will tell them that while everything that made up their mother still is and always will be in some form, but the organs that made up her consciousness have ceased to function so in that sense she had ceased to exist.  The idea of that conversation scares the hell out of me.  I would much rather tell them she was in heaven and would watch over them at last until they were old enough to cope a little better.

But I still have not made a decision.   Those are just the reasons I'm considering it.

No, but you are wasting their time by telling them to believe in something that doesn't exist and you are violating their trust by lying to them.  The whole point of being a parent is to instruct your child how the world works.  As much as  it's a shame that they might not have their mother for long, do you want to add to that the fact that their father lied to them as well?
I know what my answer would be.

[cocunningham]

Well for a number of reasons.  First being atheist I do not believe in a God or afterlife so i do not worry about my child being damned for worshiping a false god.  So I have no problem with my children believing whatever they want as long as they don't use those beliefs as justification to harm another physically or emotionally.

Second I was raised Christian and came to my own theories on my own following evidence. Would it not make sense for them to learn the principals of religions and when they have doubts and questions encourage them to seek the answer on their own.   As I said before I don't have a problem with religion as long as it's not a media used to cause suffering or personal gain.  I just want to instill in them the strength to challenge the status quo and find their own path wherever it leads them.

Third and this is where I feel like I'm being selfish.   My wife as a rare untreatable condition where her immune system will attack her organs.  It is not unlikely my wife may die when my children are young.  And if I  raise them atheist I will tell them that while everything that made up their mother still is and always will be in some form, but the organs that made up her consciousness have ceased to function so in that sense she had ceased to exist.  The idea of that conversation scares the hell out of me.  I would much rather tell them she was in heaven and would watch over them at last until they were old enough to cope a little better.

But I still have not made a decision.   Those are just the reasons I'm considering it.

No, but you are wasting their time by telling them to believe in something that doesn't exist and you are violating their trust by lying to them.  The whole point of being a parent is to instruct your child how the world works.  As much as  it's a shame that they might not have their mother for long, do you want to add to that the fact that their father lied to them as well?
I know what my answer would be.

Well to wasting their time I don't see how teaching them one view point would do so. If I taught them my theories on the origination of life or the source of matter I could be teaching them just as many fallacies as are present in any religion as our depth of knowledge is inadequate to properly run an experiment at this time. So as to teaching them how the world works there is so much Idon't know to truly do that.

To your point about lying to them though I think you are right on point. I would be lying if I presented myself as Christian and when they found the truth they would likely respond with anger and justifiably so.

I unfortunately don't have a good example to follow. I only know two athiests personally. One raised their children Christian as their mother was Christian and it was important to her they learn it prior to making a decision. The difference in his case he was always honest about his opinions. The children are in their teens and are well adjusted generous youths. I have another who's son is much younger (only turned 10 a couple months ago) and he is raising him atheist. He unfortunately is having a tough go of it and being in TN has faced some discrimination because he eechoes his father's position. I know there are other factors involved other than just religion but I worry about setting out into uncharted waters when it relates to my kids. I have never had trouble going my own way and facing the hardships but to put someone else through it just because of my opinion is a struggle. Now once again I may be selling my kids short. They may be able to learn, adapt, and thrive in that environment and be stronger for it.

[Secular Elf]

I don't have any children (though I once wanted them, I am getting older and glad that I do not have any, seeing how ugly humans have become on the planet), I agree that you should allow them to make their own minds up, all the while, I add, influence them by teaching them how to think instead of what to think. If I had kids, I would definitely would teach them as much as I can as early as they are able to have conceptual understanding (Piaget's theory of learning, ages 8-10 is when they begin to understand concepts) about science, history and philosophy.

I point to the Thinking Atheist podcast I got in my e-mail this morning, he touched on the subject regarding a caller who asked about his young boy wanting to go to church.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwKfJSe3...ubs_digest

Also, Prometheus Books, a secular humanist publisher, has in it's inventory both books for parents trying to raise children non-religiously and thinking critically as well as books geared for kids and young adults to think scientifically and critically: http://www.prometheusbooks.com/

Hope that helps anyone with concerns about raising their kids as critical thinkers and secularists in a sea of religion.