[split] Big Announcement and Invitation

[Randy Carson]

A monotheist with three gods, a major devil and minor demons, thousands of saints and millions of angels. I don't think even the Egyptians worshipped as many figures.

You know better concerning the Trinity. 

Intentionally mis-characterizing your opponent's position - especially when everyone can see that this is what you're doing - is not the best way to maintain credibility.

As for angels and saints, I venture that you also know that we do not worship them.

These are straw men.

[dyresand]

A monotheist with three gods, a major devil and minor demons, thousands of saints and millions of angels. I don't think even the Egyptians worshipped as many figures.

You know better concerning the Trinity. 

Intentionally mis-characterizing your opponent's position - especially when everyone can see that this is what you're doing - is not the best way to maintain credibility.

As for angels and saints, I venture that you also know that we do not worship them.

These are straw men.

I've been over this and so has Min we both are saying trinity is incoherent nonsense it really should have been added to the bible. The bible itself is incoherent as well and is full of historical inaccuracies that cannot be proven. 

[Minimalist]

Are you equally outraged by the public school teachers who prey on our kids?

Hey, dipshit.  When a public school teacher gets caught he is arrested and jailed.  He does not get moved to another school by the superintendent so he can prey in new fields.
Why don't you exercise your tiny, catholic, mind and try and figure out the fucking difference.

Even Herr Von Popenfuhrer was guilty of it.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germ...84970.html

Back in 1980, even Joseph Ratzinger -- then the archbishop of Munich, and now Pope Benedict XVI -- had played a role in the decision to handle Peter H.'s pedophiliac infractions internally. No police, no state prosecutor, no trial. Therapy and brotherly love would bring this sinner back to the fold.

I understand the apologetic mind.  It's why I have no respect for it or you.

[Cyberman]

So is Stalin a strawman. On the other hand, how often do people pray to saints, or Mary? Yet they aren't gods either.

[dyresand]

So is Stalin a strawman. On the other hand, how often do people pray to saints, or Mary? Yet they aren't gods either.

I stated on the previous page why Stalin had ill will towards religion if they had never kicked him out he would have never had ill will towards religion. 

[Cyberman]

I agree.

[Randy Carson]

You know better concerning the Trinity. 

Intentionally mis-characterizing your opponent's position - especially when everyone can see that this is what you're doing - is not the best way to maintain credibility.

As for angels and saints, I venture that you also know that we do not worship them.

These are straw men.

I've been over this and so has Min we both are saying trinity is incoherent nonsense it really should have been added to the bible. The bible itself is incoherent as well and is full of historical inaccuracies that cannot be proven. 

Jesus was condemned to death for the blasphemy of claiming to be God (tecnically, the second person of the Trinity).

Just how open do you think the Jews would have been to Him saying, "Hey, guess what, everybody? I'm really a triplet."

But there are theophanies in the scriptures if you know where to look.

[dyresand]

I've been over this and so has Min we both are saying trinity is incoherent nonsense it really should have been added to the bible. The bible itself is incoherent as well and is full of historical inaccuracies that cannot be proven. 

Jesus was condemned to death for the blasphemy of claiming to be God (tecnically, the second person of the Trinity).

Just how open do you think the Jews would have been to Him saying, "Hey, guess what, everybody? I'm really a triplet."

But there are theophanies in the scriptures if you know where to look.

jesus never existed. There is no historical evidence whatsoever that Pilate ever administered the case of Jesus. The accounts were written into histories by the early church decades and centuries after the event was supposed to have happened. 

[Iroscato]

While the killing of even one heretic is too many, the total numbers killed was insignificant compared to the numbers murdered by the monsters of the 20th century - by which time, we humans should have been far more enlightened by freedom from the shackles of religion.

So how did that happen?

Your flippancy concerning the greatest loss of human life of all time speaks volumes about your moral compass.
It is an uncomfortable truth that we often need bad things to happen, in order to galvanise ourselves into ensuring they never happen again. In case you didn't notice, there hasn't been another World War for 70 years, thanks to the tireless peacekeeping efforts of millions of people across the world and the formation of organisations such as NATO, the UN and the EU. It has not stopped all wars, but it's stemmed the flow of bloodshed dramatically.
And please, do not suggest for a moment that the theocrats wouldn't have slaughtered heretics by the millions if they'd had access to 20th century weaponry. Save yourself a shred of dignity.

[Randy Carson]

Are you equally outraged by the public school teachers who prey on our kids?

Hey, dipshit.  When a public school teacher gets caught he is arrested and jailed.  He does not get moved to another school by the superintendent so he can prey in new fields.

And if they are not caught?

You see, the problem is MORE widespread in the public schools than in the Catholic clergy. So, while a small number of Catholic priests were engaged in homosexual activity with teenage boys, a larger number of school teachers remain undetected. This goes for Protestant clergy, also (who also have the additional problem of marital infidelity to address - something the Catholic priesthood does not face).

But you're not so upset about that. 

Let's take a look at a few facts.

According to a survey by the Washington Post, over the last four decades, less than 1.5 percent of the estimated 60,000 or more men who have served in the Catholic clergy have been accused of child sexual abuse.  According to a survey by the New York Times, 1.8 percent of all priests ordained from 1950 to 2001 have been accused of child sexual abuse.


 Thomas Kane, author of Priests are People Too, estimates that between 1 and 1.5 percent of priests have had charges made against them.  Of contemporary priests, the Associated Press found that approximately two-thirds of 1 percent of priests have charges pending against them.
 
Almost all the priests who abuse children are homosexuals.  Dr. Thomas Plante, a psychologist at Santa Clara University, found that “80 to 90% of all priests who in fact abuse minors have sexually engaged with adolescent boys, not prepubescent children.  Thus, the teenager is more at risk than the young altar boy or girls of any age.”

This is homosexuality - not pedophilia - and the media does not want to report this fact. Now, about those teachers...

The American Medical Association found in 1986 that one in four girls, and one in eight boys, are sexually abused in or out of school before the age of 18.  Two years later, a study included in The Handbook on Sexual Abuse of Children, reported that one in four girls, and one in six boys, is sexually abused by age 18.[/url][xxix]  It was reported in 1991 that 17.7 percent of males who graduated from high school, and 82.2 percent of females, reported sexual harassment by faculty or staff during their years in school.  Fully 13.5 percent said they had sexual intercourse with their teacher.[url=file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Dad/My%20Documents/Randy/Apologetics/Church%20Corruption/Sex%20Scandal%20-%20SEXUAL%20ABUSE%20IN%20SOCIAL%20CONTEXT.doc#_edn2][xxx]


In New York City alone, at least one child is sexually abused by a school employee every day.  One study concluded that more than 60 percent of employees accused of sexual abuse in the New York City schools were transferred to desk jobs at district offices located inside the schools.  Most of these teachers are tenured and 40 percent of those transferred are repeat offenders.  They call it “passing the garbage” in the schools.  One reason why this exists is due to efforts by the United Federation of Teachers to protect teachers at the expense of children.[iii][xxxi]  Another is the fact that teachers accused of sexual misconduct cannot be fired under New York State law.[xxxii]
 
One of the nation’s foremost authorities on the subject of the sexual abuse of minors in public schools is Hofstra University professor Charol Shakeshaft.  In 1994, Shakeshaft and Audrey Cohan did a study of 225 cases of educator sexual abuse in New York City.  Their findings are astounding.
 
All of the accused admitted sexual abuse of a student, but none of the abusers was reported to the authorities, and only 1 percent lost their license to teach.  Only 35 percent suffered negative consequences of any kind, and 39 percent chose to leave their school district, most with positive recommendations.  Some were even given an early retirement package.[xxxiii]  
 

Moving molesting teachers from school district to school district is a common phenomenon.  And in only 1 percent of the cases do superintendents notify the new school district.[vi][xxxiv]  According to Diana Jean Schemo, the term “passing the trash” is the preferred jargon among educators.[xxxv]
 
Shakeshaft has also determined that 15 percent of all students have experienced some kind of sexual misconduct by a teacher between kindergarten and 12th grade; the behaviors range from touching to forced penetration.[viii][xxxvi]  She and Cohan also found that up to 5 percent of teachers sexually abuse children.[ix][xxxvii]  Shakeshaft will soon be ready to release the findings of a vast study undertaken for the Planning and Evaluation Service Office of the Undersecretary, U.S. Department of Education, titled, “Educator Sexual Misconduct with Students: A Synthesis of Existing Literature on Prevalence in Connection with the Design of a National Analysis.”[xxxviii]

Source:
SEXUAL ABUSE IN SOCIAL CONTEXT:
CATHOLIC CLERGY AND OTHER PROFESSIONALS
Special Report
by Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights
February 2004

And here are the footnotes:

“Child Maltreatment 2001: Summary of Key Findings,” National Adoption Information Clearinghouse, www.calib.com/nccanch, April 2003.
[ii] Wade F. Horn, “Common-sense article about abuse,” Washington Times, February 6, 2001, p. E1.
[iii] Dr. Garth A. Rattray,  “Child Month and Paedophilia,” The Gleaner, May 14, 2002.
[iv]Alan Cooperman, “Hundreds of Priests Removed Since ‘60s; Survey Shows Scope Wider Than Disclosed,” Washington Post, June 9, 2002, p. A1.
[v]Laurie Goodstein,  “Decades of Damage; Trail of Pain in Church Crisis Leads to Nearly Every Diocese,” New York Times, January 12, 2003, Section 1, p. 1.
[vi] Interviewed by Bill O’Reilly, Transcript of “The O’Reilly Factor,” May 3, 2002.
[vii] Bob von Sternberg, “Insurance Falls Short in Church Abuse Cases; Catholic Dioceses are Forced to Find other Sources to Pay Settlements,” Star Tribune, July 27, 2002, p. 1A.
[viii] Thomas Plante, “A Perspective on Clergy Sexual Abuse,” http://www.psywww.com/psyrelig/plante.html.
[ix] Thomas Farragher and Matt Carroll, “Church Board Dismissed Accusations by Females,” Boston.com, February 2, 2003.
[x] Janet Kornblum, “85% of Church Abuse Victims are Male, Research Finds,” USA Today, July 24, 2002, pp. 6-7D.
[xi] “The Accusers and the Accused,” USA Today, November 11, 2002, p. 7D.
[xii] Brooks Egerton and Reese Dunklin, “Two-thirds of Bishops Let Accused Priests Work,” Dallas Morning News, June 12, 2002, p. 1A.
[xiii] Dale Neal, “Methodist Clergy Instructed in Sexual Ethics at Conference,” Asheville Citizen-Times, May 14, 2002, p. 1B.
[xiv] Cal Thomas, “Their Sins only Start with Abuse,” Baltimore Sun, June 19, 2002, p. 9A.
[xv] James L. Franklin, “Sexual Misconduct Seen as a Serious Problem in Religion,” Boston Globe, October 23, 1991, p. 24.
[xvi] “Pastors Are People, Too!”, Focus on the Family, May 1996, p. 7.
[xvii] Teresa Watanabe, “Sex Abuse by Clerics—A Crisis of Many Faiths,” Los Angeles Times, March 25, 2002, p. A1.
[xviii] Cal Thomas, “Their Sins only Start with Abuse,” Baltimore Sun, June 19, 2002, p. 9A.
[xix] Terry Mattingly, “Baptists’ Traditions Make it Hard to Oust Sex-Abusing Clergy,” Knoxville News-Sentinel, June 22, 2002, p. C2.
[xx] “Assemblies of God Tackles Problem of Porn Addiction Among Ministers,” Charisma, January 2001

Ignorance of the facts is one thing and it's understandable.

But ignorance fueled by hate is another thing altogether.