Ask one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[Won2blv]

Mathew 28:19,20

Just ask to be Put on the do not call list

Why should anyone have to answer the door even once to be put on the Do Not Call list?  I find it extremely rude when people, even those I know and love, ring my doorbell unsolicited.  Why not, instead, set up a booth at a street fair or park where people can approach you?  It would be a more pleasant experience for everyone involved, IMO.

JW's will never stop going door to door. They have started the public witnessing. The rule is that you wait for people to approach you and you never approach them. I understand the annoyance of the door to door work, but its something that JW's feel is a scriptural obligation

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They feel that they have a responsibility, as a group, to do so- they also feel that it strengthens their individual faith - and it helps bring in new blood so they don't collapse like a flan in a cupboard.  Remember, they're awfully clannish....wouldn't want the pool to stagnate.

And its also another scriptural obligation that practically all christians don't do. Jesus said to go forth and make disciples. The book of Acts is all about the preaching work of the first century. They went into the public areas and door to door

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Again, I am not denying evolution. I am showing that your questions premise was stupid

What you've demonstrated is that you do not understand the difference between a scientific theory which has withstood serious scrutiny since 1860 and the delusional rantings of some old fart with a bible.

Explain how I demonstrated that? I was pointing out your failed logic of it coming from the 1880's as some kind of proof that it can't be true. If that wasn't your point then why mention the 1880's anyway? Clearly you believe that facts and truth could come from the 19th century

[Pyrrho]

...

Somehow I have this feeling that I am going to get the runaround on this, but:

Why believe the Bible is true?

Do you believe every book in which there is a claim that it is written by divine inspiration?  Why not the Koran?  Or a Hindu text?

As for changes in people's lives, people claim that for every other religion.  So that is no evidence at all.

I actually answered that first question on another board started by Exian. Its titled "because the bible says so" the board... not my explanation 

If I were to get off the fence and become a full fledged bible loving theist again, it would be because I would find that the bible has demonstrated its divinity. If is the key word

As for the changes in peoples lives, I made sure to mention that it was a subjective point. But it is something that I have seen in other peoples lives and in my own. This could be chalked up to the broken clock fallacy. IDK, but I have read scriptures before that have altered some bad qualities for the better. I am talking about anger issues and selfishness to be more specific 
...

How, exactly, would a book "demonstrate its divinity?"  Would it be decided based on ambiguous and vague predictions of the future?  Is it based on a feeling you have while reading it?  Would it be something else?


As far as being on the fence is concerned, my advice, for what it is worth, is that you take your time on that and do not rush to a decision either way.  Think, and rethink, as it is more important to get it right, than to quickly come to a decision.

[Cyberman]

Nica, I have been reading your threads. It's sort of my job here. What I'm not required to do is swallow everything uncritically, merely because you serve it up. Now that's two presumptions you've made, against two members. Want to try for three? What's the matter, you have to put others down to make yourself look taller?

[pocaracas]

Why don't you follow the first recorded father-figure deity in human history, Anu?


EDIT:
Why did I assume you're ignorant of this deity so as to have provided you with a wiki link so you'd educate yourself?

[rexbeccarox]

Why should anyone have to answer the door even once to be put on the Do Not Call list?  I find it extremely rude when people, even those I know and love, ring my doorbell unsolicited.  Why not, instead, set up a booth at a street fair or park where people can approach you?  It would be a more pleasant experience for everyone involved, IMO.

JW's will never stop going door to door. They have started the public witnessing. The rule is that you wait for people to approach you and you never approach them. I understand the annoyance of the door to door work, but its something that JW's feel is a scriptural obligation

(bold mine)

How are you following that rule if you're approaching and knocking at my front door at eight o'clock on a Saturday morning?  And honestly, I couldn't give two monkey shits what "scriptural obligation" anyone has; don't leave your propaganda on my door, either.

[Randy Carson]

Before I answer this question, do you view the bible as the complete word of god and in harmony together?

Gee, I didn't know there were any conditions to your offer to answer questions. But okay, here is how the Catechism of the Catholic Church explains it:

77 "In order that the full and living Gospel might always be preserved in the Church the apostles left bishops as their successors. They gave them their own position of teaching authority."35 Indeed, "the apostolic preaching, which is expressed in a special way in the inspired books, was to be preserved in a continuous line of succession until the end of time."36

78 This living transmission, accomplished in the Holy Spirit, is called Tradition, since it is distinct from Sacred Scripture, though closely connected to it. Through Tradition, "the Church, in her doctrine, life and worship, perpetuates and transmits to every generation all that she herself is, all that she believes."37 "The sayings of the holy Fathers are a witness to the life-giving presence of this Tradition, showing how its riches are poured out in the practice and life of the Church, in her belief and her prayer."38

79 The Father's self-communication made through his Word in the Holy Spirit, remains present and active in the Church: "God, who spoke in the past, continues to converse with the Spouse of his beloved Son. And the Holy Spirit, through whom the living voice of the Gospel rings out in the Church - and through her in the world - leads believers to the full truth, and makes the Word of Christ dwell in them in all its richness."39

II. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRADITION AND SACRED SCRIPTURE

One common source. . .

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own "always, to the close of the age".41

. . . two distinct modes of transmission

81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."42

"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."43

82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."44

What is the final earthly authority for god, the bible or the pope?

It is not either/or.

We recognize the authority of Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church. In the event that misunderstandings or misinterpretations of Sacred Scripture occur, then the Magisterium of the Church (found most uniquely in the office of the papacy) is the final, infallible interpreter of scripture.

As Paul pointed out, the Church...not a book...is the pillar and foundation or bulwark of the truth:

1 Timothy 3:15
15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

[Minimalist]

Explain how I demonstrated that? I was pointing out your failed logic of it coming from the 1880's as some kind of proof that it can't be true. If that wasn't your point then why mention the 1880's anyway? Clearly you believe that facts and truth could come from the 19th century

Because dickhead ( I've now lost patience with you ) you don't understand that a scientific theory which has been studied extensively for 150 years has nothing in comparison with a pile of religious horseshit which is nothing more than the delusional prattling of some shithead with a bible.  Try again.

[ignoramus]

C'mon Min, don't be shy. Tell him how you really feel!

hehe

Hey, do you feel like the Jew banging his head against the wall! (careful, do it long enough, you might become one)

[pocaracas]

So you're a JW... I think I'm going to ask you the same I asked Carson. You think you're up to the challenge?

I'll even allow myself to be lazy and copy the question itself.

Since I'm going to delve into history, how about we consider the very real possibility of fabrication of the concept of Jesus? Perhaps as an amalgamation of other pre-existing deities and some other real people. I'm not even going into other gods (egyptians, greek or romans, or assyrians) who were claimed to be born of virgins, died and resurrected and other tri-parted heads of pantheons.... I'm going into my favorite simple and evidenced Teacher of Righteousness:

Michael O. Wise posits that the Teacher of Righteousness was the "first messiah", a figure predating Jesus by roughly 100 years.[9] This figure - who Wise believes was named Judah - rose to prominence during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus, and had been a priest and confidant to the king. However, he became dissatisfied with the religious sects in Jerusalem, and in reaction, founded a "crisis cult". While amassing a following, the Teacher (and his followers) claimed he was the fulfillment of various Biblical prophecies, with an emphasis on those found in Isaiah. The Teacher was eventually killed by the religious leadership in Jerusalem, and his followers hailed him as messianic figure who had been exalted to the presence of God's throne. They then anticipated that the Teacher would return to judge the wicked and lead the righteous into a golden age, and that it would take place within the next forty years. Wise explains that dating of manuscript copies among the Dead Sea Scrolls shows that the Teacher's postmortem following drastically increased in size over several years, but that when the predicted return and golden age failed to materialize, his following dissipated rapidly.

The story does sound familiar, does it not? The troubling bit is that it pre-dates Jesus by over 100 years. It could have been revived some time before the Council of Nicaea and found its way into some text that would later be considered a gospel.

I then gave him some more info on where this comes from, because just providing a link in the middle of the text is not enough:

This is a figure described in the Habakkuk Pesher, one of the dead sea scrolls, "written sometime in the later half of the 1st century BC". If this is when the guy get's written about, then the events (if true) happened prior to that.
At the very least, the story is of such a man who gathers a following, confronts the established religious authority, who waste no time getting him crucified... And then he resurrects, 3 days later.

So we have two potential situations here:
- The historical Jesus is a copycat of this teacher... but I see too many extraordinary details for someone to successfully copy. Both resurrect 3 days after being crucified?
- This teacher IS the historical Jesus and year one on the catholic calendar is misplaced by, at least, 50 years. Of course, this would render some of the canonical gospels as wrong on a few key details - namely, the roman leaders of the region where things happen, both the birth (which is already wrong by a few years) and the crucifixion.

And just to make the question a bit more obvious than I did to Carson on my first go:

My question remains the same: How do you fit in your head the information that a writing exists, predating the canonical date of the birth of Jesus, which presents a figure whose life contains details that match very closely to the life attributed, in the canon, to Jesus?

This question is about YOU. What is your personal take on this.
Had you ever come across this detail of 1970's archeology?

[Won2blv]

Nica, I have been reading your threads. It's sort of my job here. What I'm not required to do is swallow everything uncritically, merely because you serve it up. Now that's two presumptions you've made, against two members. Want to try for three? What's the matter, you have to put others down to make yourself look taller?

Can you give me specifics? If anything the presumptions have been a constant coming my way and I have never seen criticism on their parts