Some theists are just to far gone

[robvalue]

Exactly, it's not suitable for young children. That makes it even more inappropriate to be forcing it onto them. If people waited until their kids were at least 7 or so before they started trying to indoctrinate, they might find it's not so easy.

I don't know if it's even suitable for a 7 year old really. But I'm out of touch with what kids have and haven't been exposed to at various ages now. Things have gone a bit mental in that regard since I was a kid.

[QuarkDriven]

What I really want to know is what goes on in their heads. When they say God is talking to them, or even appearing to them, does it really seem to them like they are hearing/hearing something? I figure either they genuinely are, which is frankly very distressing; or they have convinced themselves they are when they're really not (perhaps more likely); or of course they're just making it up. I wonder how the percentages would fall.

If God has ever tried to talk to me it must have been on a day he was a bit hoarse and lost his voice.

I can tell you how it was for me, and how it was for most others I spoke with regarding this.  I do not recall any who claimed to hear a distinct, clear voice, like a real voice (like you would have to be crazy to hear).  What people had were various feelings, which they sometimes interpreted as being somehow a message from god.  I personally found the feelings idea not very convincing, and was pretty skeptical of that even when I was still a believer.

Edited to add:

I believe many simply misidentified their conscience, and believed it was god talking to them.  Some seemed to identify it with particularly strong feelings of conscience.


I agree, I don't necessarily think its actual voices they hear, but more like "seeing signs" that are believed to be from up above... If you look for signs hard enough (and it's not that hard) you will find them.... I think I should wear this blue shirt today... walks down street, see's someone else wearing a blue shirt with a cross necklace/chain showing and BAM.. thats a sign from god that I should have worn a blue shirt... god just spoke to me, he wanted me to wear this blue shirt and I listened, god is great... smh...

[Pyrrho]

Yeah. If we're going to start banning things for having a lot of violence and sex in it, the bible is one of the things that needs to go. That's why they say you have to be "in the spirit" or something when you read the book. Taken from a skeptical point of view, especially when you learn about the culture and history surrounding the bible, isn't going to strengthen most people's faith.

I think it is good for children to read the Bible.  It helps convert them to being atheists when they read the stories about how evil god is.

Also, if we look at the matter historically, access to the Bible has helped break up the hold the Catholic Church had on people.  For a long time, the Bible was available in Latin, but not in the local languages, so regular people who were literate could not read it, even if they could get their hands on it.  (And, of course, many regular people were illiterate, but that made no difference for this purpose if the only Bibles were in Latin anyway.)

Henry VIII had an English edition of the Bible made, after he broke away from the Catholic Church, and that helped solidify protestantism in England, because people could read it and see that the Catholic Church had not been following the Bible.  It undermined their authority.

Without it, people had no way of knowing if the Catholic Church was following "god's word" or not.  The priests, of course, told the people that they were.

The Catholic Church flourished better, the more ignorant they kept the masses.

[robvalue]

Yeah, I expect no christian just gives their kid a bible and asks them to read it and come to their own conclusions about it, free from coercion. I think we all know how that would turn out, even if the kid was 4 or 5.

[Pyrrho]

Christians often give young children access to the Bible, but they don't tell them to believe whatever they want.  But it is harder to convince people that god is good, once one reads some of the violent and nasty things from the "good book."

I do not know at what age I was given my own Bible, but I was very young.  (Before that, I could look at one in my home.)  And I could read it all I wanted.  Now, of course, with the internet, it is easier to do some searching than it was when I was a child, so it is easier to find bits that throw Christianity into doubt.  But, the stuff that is hard to take was there all along.

Having my own Bible really helped me see what is in it.  Otherwise, one just gets fed whatever bits people decide to tell you about.

Of course, now, the whole thing is online, and one can search for things about the Bible online, giving one access to a lot of commentary about it, both pro and con, as well as exposing one to disputes between different Christians about some passages.

Basically, the more one knows about what is in the Bible, the harder it is to believe it.

[Chad32]

People are always more easily controlled when they're ignorant and dependent. That's why Yahweh didn't like them having too much knowledge, and why higher literacy rates and the internet hurt religion more than it helped. When people are elevated to a certain degree, they'll find out how full of crap the ideology is, which is why some believe that Lucifer is probably a good guy who cares more about us as people than Yahweh ever did. No one should ever be proud of being called a sheep.

[dyresand]

Because this is what science and logic is and this is what religion is.
It pisses me off that christians try to say their god is peaceful and all loving when he clearly isn't.