Do you think political correctness is a new cover for blasphemy?

[henryp]

With the muslim issue, there has to be some pushback out of practicality. The population needs some protections due to the wars, and terrorism, etc... It's not just "Nativity scenes are dumb." It's more like "Let's beat the shit out of some towel heads." Obviously, there PR team is going to try and cry bigotry at everything, as that's a super-duper PR move. But the more general telling people to cool their jets a bit in regards to Muslim Americans seems like it probably has to be a thing.

[Faith No More]

With the muslim issue, there has to be some pushback out of practicality.  The population needs some protections due to the wars, and terrorism, etc...  It's not just "Nativity scenes are dumb."  It's more like "Let's beat the shit out of some towel heads."  Obviously, there PR team is going to try and cry bigotry at everything, as that's a super-duper PR move.  But the more general telling people to cool their jets a bit in regards to Muslim Americans seems like it probably has to be a thing.

Yeah, because the "let's beat the shit out of some towel-heads" mentality has worked so well for us so far.  9/11 got a large chunk of the population thinking exactly that, and it has led to a foreign policy disaster the likes of which we haven't seen since the Vietnam War.  In fact, we now have ISIS in part thanks to our actions and the "get the towel-heads" mentality.  

So, yeah, why you'd still cling to such a stupid idea is beyond me.  I'm not saying we have to be silent, but terrorism, its causes and its ability to recruit are all deeply tied in the surrounding culture and population.  Dehumanizing the people as a whole with a "get me sum towel-head" approach is not only playing right into the extremists' hands and going to make the situation worse, it has led thousands upon thousands of civilian deaths.

[TheMessiah]

With the muslim issue, there has to be some pushback out of practicality.  The population needs some protections due to the wars, and terrorism, etc...  It's not just "Nativity scenes are dumb."  It's more like "Let's beat the shit out of some towel heads."  Obviously, there PR team is going to try and cry bigotry at everything, as that's a super-duper PR move.  But the more general telling people to cool their jets a bit in regards to Muslim Americans seems like it probably has to be a thing.

Yeah, because the "let's beat the shit out of some towel-heads" mentality has worked so well for us so far.  9/11 got a large chunk of the population thinking exactly that, and it has led to a foreign policy disaster the likes of which we haven't seen since the Vietnam War.  In fact, we now have ISIS in part thanks to our actions and the "get the towel-heads" mentality.  

So, yeah, why you'd still cling to such a stupid idea is beyond me.  I'm not saying we have to be silent, but terrorism, its causes and its ability to recruit are all deeply tied in the surrounding culture and population.  Dehumanizing the people as a whole with a "get me sum towel-head" approach is not only playing right into the extremists' hands and going to make the situation worse, it has led thousands upon thousands of civilian deaths.

While I agree foreign policy had led to this, so has the ideology behind this: Islam.

Most victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves. Even if the West wasn't involved, there'd still be chaos --- the current war with all these terrorist groups is a war over Islam.

Whichever group wins will be the most dominant force of Islam in the Middle-East.

[Dystopia]

Yeah, because the "let's beat the shit out of some towel-heads" mentality has worked so well for us so far.  9/11 got a large chunk of the population thinking exactly that, and it has led to a foreign policy disaster the likes of which we haven't seen since the Vietnam War.  In fact, we now have ISIS in part thanks to our actions and the "get the towel-heads" mentality.  

So, yeah, why you'd still cling to such a stupid idea is beyond me.  I'm not saying we have to be silent, but terrorism, its causes and its ability to recruit are all deeply tied in the surrounding culture and population.  Dehumanizing the people as a whole with a "get me sum towel-head" approach is not only playing right into the extremists' hands and going to make the situation worse, it has led thousands upon thousands of civilian deaths.

While I agree foreign policy had led to this, so has the ideology behind this: Islam.

Most victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves. Even if the West wasn't involved, there'd still be chaos --- the current war with all these terrorist groups is a war over Islam.

Whichever group wins will be the most dominant force of Islam in the Middle-East.

I don't have the slightest doubt that, had Islam never been created, ISIS would still exist under a different name. Nothing has a single, isolated cause.

[FatAndFaithless]

Regardless of the complexities and intricacies of the geopolitical environment and the historical and contemporary causes that have created the situation in which we find ourselves, solving the issues that we face today will not be aided by the twisting of rhetoric to fit one agenda or another. It's why I bristle at both the people that try to absolve Islam of all responsibility and react with fierce censure against criticism, as well as the crowd that paints all Muslims as the same and suggest that foreign policy or America's historical blunders have no impact on the situation.

Both political correctness and overzealous nationalism/bigotry are impeding honest discussion, and I get enough of those from both sides of the spectrum politically.

[Faith No More]

While I agree foreign policy had led to this, so has the ideology behind this: Islam.

Most victims of Islamic terrorism are Muslims themselves. Even if the West wasn't involved, there'd still be chaos --- the current war with all these terrorist groups is a war over Islam.

Whichever group wins will be the most dominant force of Islam in the Middle-East.

Islam is surely a factor in the region, but my point was that no matter how fervent an opposition to extremism is, it will never be effective without a deep understanding of the culture around it. You will never defeat terrorism if you can't reach the locals, and since they are all Muslims, the "down with Islam" approach is counterproductive

[henryp]

With the muslim issue, there has to be some pushback out of practicality.  The population needs some protections due to the wars, and terrorism, etc...  It's not just "Nativity scenes are dumb."  It's more like "Let's beat the shit out of some towel heads."  Obviously, there PR team is going to try and cry bigotry at everything, as that's a super-duper PR move.  But the more general telling people to cool their jets a bit in regards to Muslim Americans seems like it probably has to be a thing.

Yeah, because the "let's beat the shit out of some towel-heads" mentality has worked so well for us so far.  9/11 got a large chunk of the population thinking exactly that, and it has led to a foreign policy disaster the likes of which we haven't seen since the Vietnam War.  In fact, we now have ISIS in part thanks to our actions and the "get the towel-heads" mentality.  

So, yeah, why you'd still cling to such a stupid idea is beyond me.  I'm not saying we have to be silent, but terrorism, its causes and its ability to recruit are all deeply tied in the surrounding culture and population.  Dehumanizing the people as a whole with a "get me sum towel-head" approach is not only playing right into the extremists' hands and going to make the situation worse, it has led thousands upon thousands of civilian deaths.

The 'population' that I'm saying needs some protecting is the Muslim Americans.  I can see how what i wrote might be taken backwards.  I'm saying they (muslim americans) need the PC crowd to help out a bit for just the reasons you stated.  

The trick of course, is that there's 'beat the shit out of some towel-heads' and then there's criticizing the religion based on reality.  You give a PC crowd an inch, and they will try to push it to absurd lengths.  But I think that's a necessary evil at the moment.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I'm not saying we have to be silent, but terrorism, its causes and its ability to recruit are all deeply tied in the surrounding culture and population.  

... and to our history of interactions with the population there. If you had foisted upon me, and then continued material support for, a regime that was curtailing my liberties because you wanted cheap oil, I think I'd be pretty pissed at you, and you would be a fair target in my eyes.

Too many people don't understand that the American perspective is not the only perspective here, and that white hat we wave at the rest of the world is oftentimes only a prop.

[Faith No More]

The 'population' that I'm saying needs some protecting is the Muslim Americans.  I can see how what i wrote might be taken backwards.  I'm saying they (muslim americans) need the PC crowd to help out a bit for just the reasons you stated.  

The trick of course, is that there's 'beat the shit out of some towel-heads' and then there's criticizing the religion based on reality.  You give a PC crowd an inch, and they will try to push it to absurd lengths.  But I think that's a necessary evil at the moment.

Well then, you have my apologies. I retract my post.

And I do see your point, they do need some protection, but I'm not sure that the PC crowd going to absurd lengths is necessary. I consider myself to be reasonably PC, and I don't see why others can't distinguish between necessary protection and absurdly putting something above all criticism. We're spiraling out of control with political correctness being used to force people to cater to everyone else's insecurities, and I think if we don't stand up to the abuses of political correctness, we're going to hit a point of no return where everyone will constantly walking on eggshells and have to over-regulate the things they say to other people out of the fear that some person, in some place, will be offended.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Well, the problem with PC is that it automatically assumes the worst intentions even concerning well-meant criticism. Do y'all remember back in the 90s the aide at (I think) the GAO who was forced to resign because he'd used the word "niggardly" (meaning "tight-fisted" or "stingy") in a report? The PC brigade broke into howls not because he was calling someone a nigger, but because the word he was using sounded like a slur.

It's as if a woman got angry at you for using the word "hunt" when talking about your wilderness vacation, because it sounded like "cunt".

That is the danger of PC. You have these assholes running around, oftentimes taking offense on behalf of someone else who isn't even offended, and in the process castrating the language, and all the while they don't understand that in our Constitution, we have the right to free speech, but we do not have the right to be free from offense. The result is a milquetoast language which cannot describe what we're experiencing as humans.

People don't die any more; they pass on. What did they pass on? The liverwurst at brunch? Carlin's point about the language of obfuscation is an important one in this discussion. "Shell shock" becomes "battle fatigue" becomes "post-traumatic stress disorder"; two syllables becomes four becomes eight; plain language becomes sophisticated jargon, and the changes only serve to soften the reality they're meant to convey. PC attitudes may be well-intentioned, but the result of such an approach is too often the dulling or dimming of our understanding of reality.

Sorry about the rant, this is a passionate topic for me.