In defense of Satan

[Zen Badger]

@ Aufis

Have you actually read revelations?

The 144,000 you speak of are all Jews

And gods kingdom is not attacked, he is the one who releases satan on the world.

[Thor]

@Thor
its on revelation. the future(when satan will be put into jail and the jail is the world). when did happens its rupture and so the one who stayed faithful to God will be lifted to the heavens and the one who are not will be left in the world with satan.

Yeah.... this makes no sense to me. Satan is the most evil thing in creation (so you believe) and your "loving" deity lets him loose among his children. Would you turn a cobra loose in your child's bedroom?

Revelations 14:3
3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. (emphasize who had been redeemed from the earth)

Utter nonsense. But then what would you expect from something written by goat herders living thousands of years ago?

but after the tribulation, their will be new heaven and new earth(satan is not their well i assume that his on the old one)
the one who will be in the new heaven and earth are the 144,000(some say these number is simbolical).

Yeah.... I can guarantee that this WILL NEVER happen. Why? Because IT'S FICTION!

by the way, there is no other planet that was stated(so how should i think of jupiter or other planet)

I don't get what you mean. Are you saying that "Satan" couldn't be sent to Jupiter because the planet Jupiter is not mentioned in the Babble? I don't get it.

[Minimalist]

@ minimalist
(in my opinion)
its on how we believe it.

since we are talking about satan in revelations here then we should consider revelation a fact temporarily

I'm not prepared to grant that.

Frankly, revelations has a few earmarks of having begun as a Jewish apocryphal text that was usurped by xtians when it became apparent that jesus wasn't coming back all that quickly. (And, before you get any ideas, understand that I don't think he's coming back at all because he wasn't here the first time!)

Anyway, I suspect that revelations started out as a fairly sublime piece of Jewish propaganda in the Great Revolt as it dates itself to late 68/early 69 BC in 17:10.

Revelation 17:10, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Five kings are fallen: Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero.
One is: (Servius Sulpicius) Galba who ruled from June 68 to January 69
One yet to come: (Titus Flavius) Vespasian who everyone in Judaea knew had been proclaimed by Josephus to be the future emperor when he defected to the Romans. Vespasian was gathering his armies in Northern Israel after subduing Galilee and watching the political situation in Rome.

(The author of revelations - no god...just a man...can be forgiven for missing the short-lived "emperors" Otho and Vitellius who grabbed the throne before Vespasian was able to transport his army to Italy. Nonetheless, Vespasian did "continue a short space." His rule lasted 10 years.)

In any case the "one is" comment can only refer to Galba which gives us a date within a six month range when revelations began to take shape.

I have seen xtians twist themselves into knots trying to invent other answers to save this for themselves but, frankly, those answers are as loony as most of revelations itself.

[aufis]

@zen badger

oh really? the 144, 000 are all "JEWS"? verse? i haven't read that

i don't understand what you meant on second

"he has free will, but how can he maximize that free will? if your kingdom will be attacked by another kingdom you have no other option but to attack also right?"

i wrote this earlier, is that the answer you gave on this.(sorry of wrong grammar guess you understand what i meant)

the kingdom i am referring to is kingdom of satan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ thor

"Yeah.... this makes no sense to me. Satan is the most evil thing in creation (so you believe) and your "loving" deity lets him loose among his children. Would you turn a cobra loose in your child's bedroom?"

i don't understand what you meant here.

"Yeah.... I can guarantee that this WILL NEVER happen. Why? Because IT'S FICTION!"

its how believe it.^^

"I don't get what you mean. Are you saying that "Satan" couldn't be sent to Jupiter because the planet Jupiter is not mentioned in the Babble? I don't get it."

so Bible you meant.(in my own opinion) it is.(i am not a bible scholar or expert in the book of revelations, my apologize sir)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Minimalist
(truly i am not a bible scholar so i have no right to say that you had provided me wrong or right information)

I will not twist the knot(like othere christians you said do)

Revelation 17:10(maybe your right in your information)

It is only how they interpret it.

had they assured you that those interpretation are guaranteed correct? no one can tell(based on belief) even if those emperors(you've said) fit the one described by the verse.

we could not give an assurance that those interpretations are correct like an assurance that God exist.

it's how we believe it.

---

moreover @zen badger im not that good at the book of revelations. so maybe your right. but can you please prove it?

[KichigaiNeko]

clearly aufis you can't read!!

[Zen Badger]

And you are not well versed in the bible are you.

But then xtians usually aren't.

[Thor]

@ thor

"Yeah.... this makes no sense to me. Satan is the most evil thing in creation (so you believe) and your "loving" deity lets him loose among his children. Would you turn a cobra loose in your child's bedroom?"

i don't understand what you meant here.

You don't understand what I mean? How much plainer can I be? YOU believe that "Satan" was sent by your deity to "jail" on this planet. "Satan" is supposedly the most evil thing in creation (although the Bible does not provide a single instance of "Satan" killing anyone while there are MANY instances where your deity kills swaths of mostly innocent people - but that's another topic). You also believe your deity to be "loving and just". Yet he turns this evil being loose among us. DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? Because it's on the same level as you turning a cobra loose in your child's bedroom.

"Yeah.... I can guarantee that this WILL NEVER happen. Why? Because IT'S FICTION!"

its how believe it.^^

What? Do you not proofread your posts?

"I don't get what you mean. Are you saying that "Satan" couldn't be sent to Jupiter because the planet Jupiter is not mentioned in the Babble? I don't get it."

so Bible you meant.(in my own opinion) it is.(i am not a bible scholar or expert in the book of revelations, my apologize sir)

I don't understand this response at all.

[Minimalist]

it's how we believe it.

You write that a lot. It is not an excuse for believing nonsense, you know. That is strictly up to you. I suspect that you desperately want to believe which is a whole other kettle of fish.

[Zen Badger]

@zen badger

oh really? the 144, 000 are all "JEWS"? verse? i haven't read that

i don't understand what you meant on second

"he has free will, but how can he maximize that free will? if your kingdom will be attacked by another kingdom you have no other option but to attack also right?"

i wrote this earlier, is that the answer you gave on this.(sorry of wrong grammar guess you understand what i meant)

the kingdom i am referring to is kingdom of satan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@ thor

"Yeah.... this makes no sense to me. Satan is the most evil thing in creation (so you believe) and your "loving" deity lets him loose among his children. Would you turn a cobra loose in your child's bedroom?"

i don't understand what you meant here.

"Yeah.... I can guarantee that this WILL NEVER happen. Why? Because IT'S FICTION!"

its how believe it.^^

"I don't get what you mean. Are you saying that "Satan" couldn't be sent to Jupiter because the planet Jupiter is not mentioned in the Babble? I don't get it."

so Bible you meant.(in my own opinion) it is.(i am not a bible scholar or expert in the book of revelations, my apologize sir)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Minimalist
(truly i am not a bible scholar so i have no right to say that you had provided me wrong or right information)

I will not twist the knot(like othere christians you said do)

Revelation 17:10(maybe your right in your information)

It is only how they interpret it.

had they assured you that those interpretation are guaranteed correct? no one can tell(based on belief) even if those emperors(you've said) fit the one described by the verse.

we could not give an assurance that those interpretations are correct like an assurance that God exist.

it's how we believe it.

---

moreover @zen badger im not that good at the book of revelations. so maybe your right. but can you please prove it?

I would suggest you actually read revelations( it is available on-line)

Then come back and debate the subject with us.

[Minimalist]

You want him to read?


That's asking a lot!