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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 3:56 pm
Some belief seems natural and a result of evolutionary variables but if religion stopped influencing public life and leading people to commit horrible despicable actions the world would be a better place to live in. Rest assured, no one really believes the disappearance of religion equals no evil - We are a dangerous species no matter what and we are all prone to irrationality; some truly evil people were atheists - This isn't to say atheism is evil, but that not believing is not a magical ticket to being good and rational. Personally, I would be happy in a world where the virtues of temperance and prudence are valued, as well as critical thinking.
From my experience the division between atheists and theists is not a strong one - At least not amongst my generation (young people) and peer groups, most people don't give a shit about what you believe, they may act surprise if they see you in church and you never told anyone you're a believer, but no one really cares - Just don't kill people or try to do stupid shit.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 5:58 pm
I'm all for the removal of institutionalized ignorance.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 6:02 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 5:58 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I'm all for the removal of institutionalized ignorance.
Does this mean you think religion should be eradicated by the government?
(the soviet union tried that in the 90's. google did the soviet union try to eradicate religion)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 6:08 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 6:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 5:58 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I'm all for the removal of institutionalized ignorance.
Does this mean you think religion should be eradicated by the government?
(the soviet union tried that in the 90's. google did the soviet union try to eradicate religion)
No. How did you ever get that idea?
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 6:13 pm
Catholic persecution chip. Pay it no mind.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 6:26 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 6:13 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Catholic persecution chip. Pay it no mind.
Man, hers has a hair trigger, doesn't it?
But, no, I do not want the government to outlaw religion. I'm not in favor of exchanging one kind of thought police for another.
What I do want is religion to fade out of cultural prominence. I really don't care what anyone believes, until that belief becomes actively harmful. And I consider things like the various attempts to sneak creationism into science classrooms harmful. I consider things like our Congress' wanton disregard for science (everything from climate change to female biology (legitimate rape, am I right, ladies?)) harmful. I find legal precedent set due to religious special pleading (Hobby Lobby) harmful. I find the idiots that willingly throw not only their votes but their money to those who try to infect our society with those kinds of things (and more) harmful.
That doesn't mean I want them rounded up. Just for them to slowly be pushed over the edge of irrelevance. And the numbers suggest that's happening. Religion is dying in nations where education is a priority. This is especially true with millennials, who show a sharp decline in religious affiliation. That's how I want to see it happen. Not at the end of a barrel, but at the end of critical thought.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 6:27 pm
(June 21, 2015 at 3:55 pm)Metis Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 2:11 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: Like the matrix, some people are not ready to wake up.
While I personally do not accept the stories, I do aknowledge the power they have in keeping a social order together for a considerable number of people.
I dislike what many of them teach as "good", but I also suspect that given a free reign without fear of consequences we'd see a far more chaotic world, at least now. I don't think the world is ready for Athiesm, nor will it come when Africa and the middle east are so caught up in poverty and strife. In that light I'm not sure it will ever come.
I think Voltaire said something to the effect that while he doesn't accept Christianity he'd much rather his servants were Christians since he'd be cheated and robbed far less often. Clearly it doesn't work in every circumstance but I do think there is a grain of truth to that. If possible, I think redirecting religion to a morality that wasn't so amoral might lead to a better world than an Athiest one. Some people are good for the sake of being good, but many who aren't may become good with the prospect of divine reward (I think late Roman Platonism is the best example of this in practice, had Christianity not swung by this may have been the religion of the middle classes).
Sounds a bit big brother ish I know, and I don't expect many to agree with me.
From my admittedly unscientific observations of comments, I think you are in the majority opinion on that at this site. I am one of the ones who disagrees, and although I do not relish disagreeing with Voltaire, if he said that, he was being stupid. Where is the evidence that Christians have greater honesty than anyone else? Indeed, with the many "pious frauds," it seems that Christianity gives a motive to lie and be deceitful.
Many times, Christians say that they would run amok if they did not believe. The thing is, for those who do end up rejecting their religion, they do not seem to do so. Where are these former Christians who break free from all restraint and rape and pillage? It seems that their prediction of their behavior in the absence of religion is as wrong as their other religious beliefs.
I think people are too apt to accept such claims at face value, and do not view them as critically as they deserve. I think the idea is total bullshit.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 6:46 pm
I chose other.
It greatly depends on how that comes about.
If forcibly, then we should get chaos.... not better.
If slowly, taking generations, educating people on how to be civilized, everywhere.... and I guess it could be possible.
Psychology would need to be further developed. There's an unaccounted for amount of people who find refuge for their psych disorders in prayer and meditation... without those, they'd resort to psychologists and their pills.. or whatever that science can come up with in the meantime.
And then we have the extra problem that nothing gets spread all over the world equally and simultaneously... Humans are manifestly not gods... Even gods, if real, seem unable to present their messages and powers everywhere at the same time.
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 7:02 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 7:03 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(June 21, 2015 at 6:08 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 6:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Does this mean you think religion should be eradicated by the government?
(the soviet union tried that in the 90's. google did the soviet union try to eradicate religion)
No. How did you ever get that idea?
You said you are for the removal of "institutionalized ignorance," I know by this you mean religion.
What exactly you do you mean by "removal of?"
(June 21, 2015 at 6:26 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: (June 21, 2015 at 6:13 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Catholic persecution chip. Pay it no mind.
Man, hers has a hair trigger, doesn't it?
But, no, I do not want the government to outlaw religion. I'm not in favor of exchanging one kind of thought police for another.
What I do want is religion to fade out of cultural prominence. I really don't care what anyone believes, until that belief becomes actively harmful. And I consider things like the various attempts to sneak creationism into science classrooms harmful. I consider things like our Congress' wanton disregard for science (everything from climate change to female biology (legitimate rape, am I right, ladies?)) harmful. I find legal precedent set due to religious special pleading (Hobby Lobby) harmful. I find the idiots that willingly throw not only their votes but their money to those who try to infect our society with those kinds of things (and more) harmful.
That doesn't mean I want them rounded up. Just for them to slowly be pushed over the edge of irrelevance. And the numbers suggest that's happening. Religion is dying in nations where education is a priority. This is especially true with millennials, who show a sharp decline in religious affiliation. That's how I want to see it happen. Not at the end of a barrel, but at the end of critical thought.
Gotcha. Thanks.
Disregard my above post.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: If everyone was atheist
June 21, 2015 at 7:06 pm
(This post was last modified: June 21, 2015 at 7:10 pm by Alex K.)
(June 20, 2015 at 10:51 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you think the world would be a better place if everyone was atheist?
Please explain your answer below.
Everyone becoming atheist unfortunately tells us little about the type of society there is going to be. So I checked other. Any completely purely 100% atheist society is probably not going to be a good place because such numbers will only be reached through extreme indoctrination and lack of free thought.
Edit: give me a democracy full of theists over an atheist dictatorship any day. We've said it before - atheism cannot be the highest intellectual good. Free critical thinking is. Atheism can only be a result, not the axiom.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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