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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 9:57 am
(July 13, 2015 at 9:26 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: (July 13, 2015 at 9:14 am)pocaracas Wrote: Come on... everyone knows that's a recent Hollywood movie.
World leaders playing Mahjong, on the other hand, now that's completely new to Randy (and maybe most of you).
And, who knows?... if we use his tactic of just repeating the same argument, but with slight differences, maybe he'll start seeing the merit in the argument...
(I know it's the same hope that he has we'll ever see the merit of his own argument(s))
Hey, man, that movie is based on a book, and that book is the TRUTH, ok? I know this because the vampires revealed it to me themselves with their telepathy.
And I think he does have that hope, poca...and I don't think it could be taken from him by anything in the wide fucking world. Anything.
He's not that different from most other believers... he hopes to change some of us... we hope to change some of them... In the end, who cares?
We are just microbes on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 10:02 am
(This post was last modified: July 13, 2015 at 10:05 am by robvalue.)
You know what, I would actually love it if a theist could bring forward some sort of argument or evidence that would give me pause for thought, about a religion, god, whatever. If they could even define god in a coherent way that would be good start. Not because I'm desperate to worship the first thing that can be proven, but because it would be interesting. All I get is the same terrible, flawed arguments repeated over and over, or hidden inside irrelevancies.
It's kind of depressing to know that each "amazing new argument" is going to be one of about 12 that we've heard endlessly before, or else just some absolute gibberish, threats or abuse.
So if anyone out there does actually have something of value, let's hear it! I would love the mental stimulation. I don't deny everything for the sake of it. I can be nothing but unconvinced when I'm presented with childish pleas to just believe what is written in a book, when it contradicts every experience I have ever had.
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Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 12:17 pm
Still no real evidence in this thread, I see.
Surprise, surprise.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 12:26 pm
Humans don't survive rigor mortis. There is no such thing as zombie gods.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 1:40 pm
(This post was last modified: July 13, 2015 at 1:40 pm by Pizza.)
(July 13, 2015 at 12:26 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Humans don't survive rigor mortis. There is no such thing as zombie gods. I already pointed out that a resurrection goes against biology, but the Gary Habermas clone replied, "I'm not talking about a natural cause, I'm talking about a supernatural cause." What a joke. Special pleading is funny stuff.
He still hasn't given an argument for holding one supernatural explanation as more likely than another. We still don't know why we are to hold supernatural explanations more likely than not either. Nor do we know why we are to hold one irregularity more likely than others.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 1:58 pm
(July 13, 2015 at 1:40 pm)Pizza Wrote: (July 13, 2015 at 12:26 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Humans don't survive rigor mortis. There is no such thing as zombie gods. I already pointed out that a resurrection goes against biology, but the Gary Habermas clone replied, "I'm not talking about a natural cause, I'm talking about a supernatural cause." What a joke. Special pleading is funny stuff.
He still hasn't given an argument for holding one supernatural explanation as more likely than another. We still don't know why we are to hold supernatural explanations more likely than not either. Nor do we know why we are to hold one irregularity more likely than others.
What a load of crap. It is a book of myth. Nobody survives death. Period!
Harry Potter doesn't explain air flight either.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Poor Randy. The dumb fuck does not understand that on the scale of possible explanations we get
-100 his godboy came back from the dead.
-99 space aliens landed and beamed him aboard their space ship
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-10 someone stole the body
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.
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1 none of it ever happened.
Being religious is a special class of stupid.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 5:11 pm
(July 13, 2015 at 1:58 pm)Brian37 Wrote: (July 13, 2015 at 1:40 pm)Pizza Wrote: I already pointed out that a resurrection goes against biology, but the Gary Habermas clone replied, "I'm not talking about a natural cause, I'm talking about a supernatural cause." What a joke. Special pleading is funny stuff.
He still hasn't given an argument for holding one supernatural explanation as more likely than another. We still don't know why we are to hold supernatural explanations more likely than not either. Nor do we know why we are to hold one irregularity more likely than others.
What a load of crap. It is a book of myth. Nobody survives death. Period!
Harry Potter doesn't explain air flight either.
You mean I can't float around on a wooden broom with a little magic stick?
Bu.. bu.. but the story said it can happen!
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 6:00 pm
(This post was last modified: July 13, 2015 at 6:06 pm by Randy Carson.)
CONCLUSION: JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD
In this thread, we have examined five "minimal facts" that are almost universally accepted by New Testament Scholars - believers and skeptics alike.
Fact 1: Jesus died by crucifixion. Jesus was killed by experienced, professional Roman soldiers under the orders of Pontius Pilate. He did not survive the crucifixion.
Fact 2: The disciples were transformed by their firm conviction that they had seen Jesus alive after the crucifixion. Many of them suffered greatly and endured martyrdom rather than deny their belief.
Fact 3: Paul, the deadly enemy of the Church, was suddenly converted and became Jesus' greatest evangelist. Paul endured great hardships, endured much suffering, and became a martyr rather than deny his belief.
Fact 4: James, the skeptical brother who doubted Jesus for years, was suddenly converted and became the leader of Jesus' followers in Jerusalem. James served the Christian Church valiantly, endured much suffering, and became a martyr rather than deny his belief.
Fact 5: The tomb of Jesus was found empty. And the only theory put forth by anyone for hundreds of years afterward was that proposed by his enemies; namely, that the disciples stole the body - a theory which provides independent enemy attestation that the tomb was empty.
Summing up, we see that the gospel narratives are well-supported by non-biblical sources. Jesus was crucified, died and was buried. Subsequently, Jesus' own followers, his enemy, Paul, and his unbelieving brother, James, all claimed to have seen him, and these appearances transformed them all dramatically and irrevocably. These appearances, coupled with the fact that Jesus' tomb was found empty, indicate that Jesus' appearances were physical in nature and not mere hallucinations or visions. As a result, the theory that provides the best explanation of the five facts is the resurrection: Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead just as he had promised.
"He is risen!" (Mk 16:6)
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 13, 2015 at 6:04 pm
Probably 2 billion people have seen this.
The fact that 2 billion people can watch a video and agree that the Death Star blows up is not evidence that there ever was a death star to blow up.
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