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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:21 pm
(July 19, 2015 at 1:10 pm)IanHulett Wrote: I suppose you're right. Honestly, I don't understand why religious folks come here if they don't want to have intelligent conversations, or admit when their arguments are fallacious or even downright wrong.
Concerning themselves with such things isn't in the sales script. It's a particular variation of sales where it appears that the idea is to blitz your potential customer with sales scripts in a way that will direct their responses to those that go along with your script.
From observation, it seems to work with those who have already bought the car religion but not so well with those who haven't.
The gods did not reveal, from the beginning,
All things to us, but in the course of time
Through seeking we may learn and know things better.
These things are, we conjecture, like the truth.
But as for certain truth, no man has known it,
Nor shall he know it, neither of the gods
Nor yet of all the things of which I speak.
And even if by chance he were to utter
The final truth, he would himself not know it:
For all is but a woven web of guesses.
Xenophanes
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 1:28 pm by Randy Carson.)
(July 19, 2015 at 1:21 pm)Kaninchen Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 1:10 pm)IanHulett Wrote: I suppose you're right. Honestly, I don't understand why religious folks come here if they don't want to have intelligent conversations, or admit when their arguments are fallacious or even downright wrong.
Concerning themselves with such things isn't in the sales script. It's a particular variation of sales where it appears that the idea is to blitz your potential customer with sales scripts in a way that will direct their responses to those that go along with your script.
From observation, it seems to work with those who have already bought the car religion but not so well with those who haven't.
Notice that Kaninchen makes no mention of any of the five facts. Her post is is "to the man" because she has nothing else.
Or do you, Kaninchen?
If you have ancient texts that you wish for us to consider in rebuttal to the gospels, by all means let us know.
The Jews of the first and second century did not deny the crucifixion of Jesus, so we'd all love to see what you have to show us.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:28 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 1:32 pm by Kaninchen.)
(July 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: If you have ancient texts that you wish for us to consider in rebuttal to the gospels, kaninchen, by all means let us know.
When you eventually get around to establishing them as being worthy of anybody being bothered, Randy, you'll be the first person I'll tell.
(July 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The Jews of the first and second century did not deny the crucifixion of Jesus, so we'd all love to see what you have to show us.
Come on, Randy, we've been there, done that. Remember 'Silver Blaze'?
What did the Jewish people do? Carried on being Jewish and getting into suicidal wars with the Romans while, having failed to convince us, the early Christians developed sales scripts for the more gullible.
The gods did not reveal, from the beginning,
All things to us, but in the course of time
Through seeking we may learn and know things better.
These things are, we conjecture, like the truth.
But as for certain truth, no man has known it,
Nor shall he know it, neither of the gods
Nor yet of all the things of which I speak.
And even if by chance he were to utter
The final truth, he would himself not know it:
For all is but a woven web of guesses.
Xenophanes
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:39 pm
(July 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The Jews of the first and second century did not deny the crucifixion of Jesus, so we'd all love to see what you have to show us.
Did they accept him as the risen son of god?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:42 pm
(July 19, 2015 at 1:39 pm)IATIA Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The Jews of the first and second century did not deny the crucifixion of Jesus, so we'd all love to see what you have to show us.
Did they accept him as the risen son of god?
Bingo! Of course, Randy and the others will tell us how the Jews didn't really understand their own prophetic tradition. Clearly they weren't as shamelessly creative as, for instance, the author of Matthew, who could find a messianic prophecy fulfilled by Jesus on the back of a fucking cereal box.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:42 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 1:45 pm by IanHulett.)
(July 19, 2015 at 1:39 pm)IATIA Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The Jews of the first and second century did not deny the crucifixion of Jesus, so we'd all love to see what you have to show us.
Did they accept him as the risen son of god?
He's just trying to promote his religions agenda. I'd recommend letting him drone on and continue to be close minded. I put him on my ignore list. So, I won't know if he responds to anything I post, and honestly, IDGAF. Ironically, his signature gave me that idea.
If pinkie pie isn't real, then how do you explain the existence of ponies, huh? If ponies are real, then that's proof that Pinkie Pie is real. Checkmate, christians! 
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:45 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 1:50 pm by Randy Carson.)
(July 19, 2015 at 1:28 pm)Kaninchen Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: If you have ancient texts that you wish for us to consider in rebuttal to the gospels, kaninchen, by all means let us know.
When you eventually get around to establishing them as being worthy of anybody being bothered, Randy, you'll be the first person I'll tell.
See how she works, folks?
She hasn't got anything...if she did, she would post it and silence me in a moment. But she wants to give the appearance of having some knowledge that would provide a refutation of the Christian argument. The problem is, in eight years at CAF, she hasn't produced it, and she won't here, either.
I've argued with lots of Orthodox and Protestants over the years, and almost without exception, they have offered evidence from scripture or from the Early Church Fathers or even from the Church Councils in support of their positions. Kaninchen will not offer anything like that.
So, even though, arguably, all of you atheists would benefit from hearing Kaninchen's brilliant response to the arguments for the resurrection and divinity of Jesus, none of you will ever hear it. Because no such response exists.
Ironically, she calls me a used car salesman, but when you get down to it, she's the one trying to get you to buy into the idea that she knows what she's talking about without ever showing you any evidence that the car she wants you to buy even exists. It's vaporware...the promise of an argument that she cannot deliver. But she's peddling it, nonetheless.
How 'bout them apples, K? ![[Image: ani_dancing.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=forums.catholic.com%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fani%2Fani_dancing.gif)
(July 19, 2015 at 1:23 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: The Jews of the first and second century did not deny the crucifixion of Jesus, so we'd all love to see what you have to show us.
Come on, Randy, we've been there, done that. Remember 'Silver Blaze'?
What did the Jewish people do? Carried on being Jewish and getting into suicidal wars with the Romans while, having failed to convince us, the early Christians developed sales scripts for the more gullible.[/quote]
More correctly, the Christians continued preaching and converting Jews and gentiles alike until the Roman Empire itself became Christian and Judaism was relegated to a footnote in history.
But don't worry, K. You're still God's chosen people, and he has big plans for you. I daresay that the Iranian nuke deal foolishly agreed to by our idiot president will move things toward a climatic finish sooner rather than later.
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:50 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 1:53 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Meh, I think you should have poured the jewhate on a little thicker, it didn't come off as catholic enough. The roman empire didn't become christian through any evangelical apparatus. It wasn't "preaching and converting" that spread the faith, it was "rape and pillage". I'm wondering how you came to such a strange belief about both christianity -and- the romans.....?
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:51 pm
That's 100 pages!
Any facts yet?
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RE: Proving The Resurrection By the Minimal Facts Approach
July 19, 2015 at 1:54 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 1:59 pm by Crossless2.0.)
Randy Carson wrote: But don't worry, K. You're still God's chosen people, and he has big plans for you. I daresay that the Iranian nuke deal foolishly agreed to by our idiot president will move things toward a climatic finish sooner rather than later.
I knew that Baptists and Pentecostals like to blow smoke up the Jews' asses while secretly jacking off at the thought of their imminent destruction in whatever sick Christian end times scenario du jour they embrace, but I had no idea it was a Catholic thing too. Oh wait, on second thought your church has a nice long history of anti-Semitism, doesn't it? I know, I know . . . you love the Jews. You just also like to imagine they get what you think they deserve.
But you love them. Yeah, we get it. You're an ecumenical hero, Randy. Grab an altar boy on the way out. Hell, take two. You've earned it.
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