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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 9:02 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 8:32 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 6:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hi Warrior, this has been discussed in full in the past 3 or 4 pages of this thread. I invite you to take a look! 
Yep, I read all that word twisting. Obviously, after I posted this.
I also note you left my other question completely unanswered.
Ok, just making sure. Sorry you think it's word twisting. I get that you don't agree, but objectively speaking, I don't see any word twists. Just a belief that is different from yours.
Sorry for not having answered your other question, but it's one of those questions that would delve into "why am I a Christian", since I undeniably believe everything about Jesus' life was real... no allegories. The question would then become about why I'm Christian/Catholic. Too long to get into again, but I did on the "what is good thread" for a while. I hope you'll forgive me for saying that I really just don't have the patience right now to type all that out again lol. Though I will say that I fully admit to there not being concrete proof of the Christian God's existence that I can present you with. It does require faith.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 9:08 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 9:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 8:32 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Yep, I read all that word twisting. Obviously, after I posted this.
I also note you left my other question completely unanswered.
Ok, just making sure. Sorry you think it's word twisting. I get that you don't agree, but objectively speaking, I don't see any word twists. Just a belief that is different from yours.
Sorry for not having answered your other question, but it's one of those questions that would delve into "why am I a Christian", since I undeniably believe everything about Jesus' life was real... no allegories. The question would then become about why I'm Christian/Catholic. Too long to get into again, but I did on the "what is good thread" for a while. I hope you'll forgive me for saying that I really just don't have the patience right now to type all that out again lol. Though I will say that I fully admit to there not being concrete proof of the Christian God's existence that I can present you with. It does require faith.
I don't see how a question about what is real in the buy-bull, what isn't, and how you tell the difference is the same as why you're a christer. It sounds more like a dodge to me.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 9:43 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 1:36 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 1:23 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: Inerrant?
So I guess all the contradictions and the gospels not being able to get the story right are....NOT errors? ._.
We would have to go through these "contradictions" on a case by case basis. Whole books have been written to demonstrate that what appears to be a contradiction may not actually be a contradiction.
Some survivors of the Titanic said that the ship broke in two. Other survivors said it did not. Is that a contradiction? And does it really make much of a difference when the big picture is that Jesus rose from the dead...I mean, that the Titanic actually sank? *bold added by me*
![[Image: b0da94e80d533c13c7eea900a03312d3.jpg]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/b0/da/94/b0da94e80d533c13c7eea900a03312d3.jpg)
You daft motherfucker. Yes. Yes it bloody well does. I don't know what you would expect from a book supposedly inspired by a perfect deity but I would expect something goddamned close to perfection. A book chock full of inaccuracies, depraved immorality and Grade-A bullshit no one would believe if it weren't for the damned ad pop. effect doesn't exactly scream perfection to me.
![[Image: bbb59Ce.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.imgur.com%2Fbbb59Ce.gif)
(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 10:02 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2015 at 10:19 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(July 12, 2015 at 9:08 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 9:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Ok, just making sure. Sorry you think it's word twisting. I get that you don't agree, but objectively speaking, I don't see any word twists. Just a belief that is different from yours.
Sorry for not having answered your other question, but it's one of those questions that would delve into "why am I a Christian", since I undeniably believe everything about Jesus' life was real... no allegories. The question would then become about why I'm Christian/Catholic. Too long to get into again, but I did on the "what is good thread" for a while. I hope you'll forgive me for saying that I really just don't have the patience right now to type all that out again lol. Though I will say that I fully admit to there not being concrete proof of the Christian God's existence that I can present you with. It does require faith.
I don't see how a question about what is real in the buy-bull, what isn't, and how you tell the difference is the same as why you're a christer. It sounds more like a dodge to me.
Well, that's the thing. I believe the story of Jesus is historically real. No allegory. So the question would then be, why do I believe the story of Jesus as it is written, while believing in other stories as being allegory? Well, being a Christian means believing in the story of Jesus just as it is said... the immaculate conception, the miracles, the resurrection, etc. This would be another question about why I'm Christian.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 10:05 pm
But how do you determine that one part is real while other parts aren't?!? Is it just acceptance of what's spoon fed to you or is there some actual process?
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 10:18 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 10:05 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: But how do you determine that one part is real while other parts aren't?!? Is it just acceptance of what's spoon fed to you or is there some actual process?
The stories in the OT sound very bizarre to me, and were written thousands of years ago when writing style could very possibly be different. So it would make sense to believe they are not historically accurate. Especially the story of Genesis, of which there is evidence that proves it's impossible it could have happened literally as it is written.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 10:28 pm
(July 12, 2015 at 10:18 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (July 12, 2015 at 10:05 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: But how do you determine that one part is real while other parts aren't?!? Is it just acceptance of what's spoon fed to you or is there some actual process?
The stories in the OT sound very bizarre to me, and were written thousands of years ago when writing style could very possibly be different. So it would make sense to believe they are not historically accurate. Especially the story of Genesis, of which there is evidence that proves it's impossible it could have happened literally as it is written.
But then again, like christians and catholics.. they magically forget what is stated in the bible and what jesus says about the OT.
You are really supposed to still follow it.
When the OT was written 6th century B.C
When the NT was written first century A.D.
The problem with saying the jesus story happened and believing it to be true, the problem is that anything written about jesus here all hearsay as there
is no proof. If a person named jesus existed he would have been a con man and a heretic and gotten killed. Also most of the things jesus was preaching
was just common sense anyways.
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 11:09 pm
The NT bible is useless. It has the same stories written over and over with minor things changed. If you look back at the OT and read the NT you will notice jesus isn't the
supposed savior since the writers of the NT didn't bother when writing on hearsay that jesus fullfilled OT prophecy and he didn't
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 12, 2015 at 11:54 pm
(This post was last modified: July 12, 2015 at 11:56 pm by Whateverist.)
(July 12, 2015 at 10:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: So the question would then be, why do I believe the story of Jesus as it is written, while believing in other stories as being allegory? Well, being a Christian means believing in the story of Jesus just as it is said... the immaculate conception, the miracles, the resurrection, etc. This would be another question about why I'm Christian.
[My bold of course.]
Caution, slippery slope ahead. Couldn't someone who takes the stories of Jesus allegorically still count herself a Christian?
When Jesus says "I am the way", it certainly seems reasonable to interpret that as intending his example and not worship. Regardless, who gets to decide who is a true Christian?
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RE: A moral and ethical question for theists
July 13, 2015 at 12:05 am
(July 12, 2015 at 10:02 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well, that's the thing. I believe the story of Jesus is historically real. No allegory. So the question would then be, why do I believe the story of Jesus as it is written, while believing in other stories as being allegory? Well, being a Christian means believing in the story of Jesus just as it is said... the immaculate conception, the miracles, the resurrection, etc. This would be another question about why I'm Christian. Agreed, that is the thing.
And it boggles my mind that you would so believe.
I find it understandable that your belief is by faith but why do you have faith without sufficient evidence in just this topic?
You don't have faith that Mohammad had a flying horse do you?
Why do you have faith in faith?
Is faith a good method of supporting belief in any other venue?
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat? 
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