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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:07 am
(July 19, 2015 at 3:07 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Scapegoating. Not absolving you from your responsibility even if you think it does since ever
Jesus didn't even die. Death, by definition, is the permanent ending of vital processes. If something comes back to life, it means it's never been dead in the first place. So next time somebody days Jesus died for you, throw a fucking dictionary at them.
Try that the next time you read about someone who is clinically dead for 30, 60 or 90 minutes with no pulse, no brain waves, no breathing and then is revived by medical personnel.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:09 am
(July 19, 2015 at 5:12 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: "Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross" What sacrifice? he got better 3 days later and then went home to his dad, more like a slight inconvenience than a sacrifice.
Yep. No sacrifice at all.
![[Image: pictures-jesus-crucifixion.jpg]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.godisreal.today%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2Fpictures-jesus-crucifixion.jpg)
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:11 am
(July 19, 2015 at 10:07 am)Randy Carson Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 3:07 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Scapegoating. Not absolving you from your responsibility even if you think it does since ever
Jesus didn't even die. Death, by definition, is the permanent ending of vital processes. If something comes back to life, it means it's never been dead in the first place. So next time somebody days Jesus died for you, throw a fucking dictionary at them.
Try that the next time you read about someone who is clinically dead for 30, 60 or 90 minutes with no pulse, no brain waves, no breathing and then is revived by medical personnel.
Try what? Providing the definition?
Permanent, Randy. Permanent. Not temporary. No matter how long the break, it is not permanent. You can't come back from the dead of you haven't died.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:11 am
(July 19, 2015 at 10:04 am)Randy Carson Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 1:37 am)luka Wrote: If there are any Christians perusing the forum I would like to ask you a question. I've been an atheist for about 4 years now and only one question still troubles me about Jesus. Why does it matter if he was tortured and crucified? If he was a godly being, with dominion over nature and the entire universe, surely he would have the ability to not feel pain. How would pain even be scaled to a supreme being?
True. However, Jesus was also fully human, and he experienced hunger, cold, and pain just as we do.
Now, in terms of sacrifice for our sins, it was not REALLY necessary that Jesus be tortured and suffer. However, if he had simply walked into Pilate's office and said, "I'm here for my beheading" followed by a quick sword stroke, I don't think that WE would think quite as much of that as we do of the scourging, the crowning with thorns and the crucifixion. The latter execution is FAR more graphic and helps us to appreciate the lengths to which God was willing to go in order to redeem us. It was a heavy price, but He paid it.
Quote:Furthermore, I don't understand why an eternal, omniscient being would decide that he would need to put himself through a few days of pain in order to save his creation from their sin. Even if he did suffer horrendous pain, it still would prove nothing. It wouldn't prove he was honorable, trustworthy, or that any of his teachings were correct. While sacrificing yourself for something greater than yourself is honorable, it doesn't absolve others of their sins. It also doesn't count as a sacrificial act if Jesus rose from the dead and took his seat as the ruler of the universe again.
The crucifixion doesn't matter.
If your child breaks a large bay window in a neighbor's house that he cannot possibly pay for by himself, you step in to pay the debt to the neighbor. The neighbor is satisfied and the child is no longer under obligation.
We could not possibly repay our debt to God for the sins we commit, so Jesus stepped in to pay it for us. We are absolved, and we are no longer under obligation.
The crucifixion means everything.
Your analogy does not fit what happens in the bible. For it to do so, you would have to put the child in a room full of only windows. No matter where he steps, you know that he will break something and therefore be responsible. After the inevitable (that you knew would happen because you set the scenario up that way) and he breaks the glass, you pay the price but demand that he worship and adore you to the point that he is your slave. How you can not see that this is what your religion teaches amazes me.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:14 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 10:16 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 19, 2015 at 10:04 am)Randy Carson Wrote: If your child breaks a large bay window in a neighbor's house that he cannot possibly pay for by himself, you step in to pay the debt to the neighbor. The neighbor is satisfied and the child is no longer under obligation.
We could not possibly repay our debt to God for the sins we commit, so Jesus stepped in to pay it for us. We are absolved, and we are no longer under obligation.
The crucifixion means everything.
That was a shoddy attempt. What we -don't- do is torture the parent then nail them to a fucking post. Maybe we have that wrong though, you ready to string some unfortunate up as payment for my parking tickets?
The crucifixion means quite a bit, none of it good.......and you know better, despite your claims.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:14 am
(July 19, 2015 at 10:09 am)Randy Carson Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 5:12 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: "Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross" What sacrifice? he got better 3 days later and then went home to his dad, more like a slight inconvenience than a sacrifice.
Yep. No sacrifice at all.
What is absolutely hilarious to me, is that you, in your wallowing about how terribly Jesus allegedly suffered, completely ignore and disregard the two dudes dying the same death literally right fucking next to him. Not to mention the hundreds of others who have since and before died the same way. Some fucking sacrifice.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:14 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 10:15 am by robvalue.)
Wow photo evidence. Why am I only just seeing this?
You don't torture your neighbours? I always do. I'm doing it right now.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:15 am
(July 19, 2015 at 10:09 am)Randy Carson Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 5:12 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: "Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross" What sacrifice? he got better 3 days later and then went home to his dad, more like a slight inconvenience than a sacrifice.
Yep. No sacrifice at all.
HOLY SHIT an actual picture of jeebus. I am now converted!!! Praise gawd. Thanks Randy
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:16 am
(July 19, 2015 at 10:11 am)Neimenovic Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 10:07 am)Randy Carson Wrote: Try that the next time you read about someone who is clinically dead for 30, 60 or 90 minutes with no pulse, no brain waves, no breathing and then is revived by medical personnel.
Try what? Providing the definition?
Permanent, Randy. Permanent. Not temporary. No matter how long the break, it is not permanent. You can't come back from the dead of you haven't died.
Okay, Nemo. Jesus didn't die.
So, what exactly happened to Jesus on the cross and what was the state of his body during the time it was in the tomb?
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:16 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 10:16 am by Longhorn.)
(July 19, 2015 at 10:04 am)Randy Carson Wrote: If your child breaks a large bay window in a neighbor's house that he cannot possibly pay for by himself, you step in to pay the debt to the neighbor. The neighbor is satisfied and the child is no longer under obligation.
We could not possibly repay our debt to God for the sins we commit, so Jesus stepped in to pay it for us. We are absolved, and we are no longer under obligation.
The crucifixion means everything.
Great, really. Absolutely peachy. The one teeny tiny problem I have with that analogy.....the father and the neighbor are the same fucking person.
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