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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 3:38 pm
Jenny: you still haven't defined what "God" is.
I can't possibly understand what you're getting at until you do.
By what method do you propose an event be tested for God's involvement? How can that be studied?
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 3:40 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 3:36 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 3:30 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: I would find any and all of them convincing, if there was credible evidence for them. That's what "open-minded" means.
Show me evidence of god - and I'll believe in that too...
what evidence exactly would you believe? what would convince you that God exists ?
Your god or mine? 
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming" -The Prophet Boiardi-
Conservative trigger warning.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 3:40 pm
They're all the same to me
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay
0/10
Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 3:41 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 3:32 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 2:16 pm)robvalue Wrote: I don't know what people are expecting.
Do they want scientists to go, "Wow, yes this is amazing! We have no good explanation for this, so it's magic! Everyone can make up their own stories about it, and we will endorse them!"
Scientists aren't stopping people making up stories.
how do you know the examples listed were hoaxes they were not proven as hoaxes isnt it just likely you are assuming they are hoaxes because they do not fit into the world view that you have created and to think they are anything other than a hoax would challenge that ?
Be honest here, Jenny. Do you honestly hear a story about a miracle that occurs at the Hindu festival, and think to yourself "Ohmygosh! The Hindu gods have power! They must be right!!" or do you presume that something else is going on?
When we skeptics look at the "miracle" that the Hindus claim, and prove it was a natural phenomenon, after all, how do you think the True Believers™ among the Hindi see us? Do you think they might say the same stuff to you that you say to us?
And yet, I bet you'd come to this same conclusion:
Quote:Seeking to explain the phenomenon, scientists from India's Ministry of Science and Technology travelled to a temple in New Delhi and made an offering of milk containing a food colouring. As the level of liquid in the spoon dropped, the scientists hypothesized that after the milk disappeared from the spoon, it coated the statue beneath where the spoon was placed. With this result, the scientists offered capillary action as an explanation; the surface tension of the milk was pulling the liquid up and out of the spoon, before gravity caused it to run down the front of the statue. Mr. Prabir Ghosh was one of the people to demonstrate how the Hindus were coaxed into believing the miracle. He quoted on the phenomenon after his explanation - "See what it is that the gurus and swamis are up to!"
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 3:50 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 3:36 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 3:30 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: I would find any and all of them convincing, if there was credible evidence for them. That's what "open-minded" means.
Show me evidence of god - and I'll believe in that too...
what evidence exactly would you believe? what would convince you that God exists ?
Any god that wants us to believe he exists, would know what kind of evidence each of us would accept.
Funny, how the only evidence theists seem to provide is: ancient texts, anecdotal, personal experience of believers, claims of miracles, and flawed philosophical arguments.
Why doesn't your god step up?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 3:58 pm
Maybe we should back up for a moment. Jenny, in your own words (no external links or quotes), what is the scientific method?
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 4:00 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 3:35 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 3:27 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: why would you find any of them convincing your not open to the possibility that it could be caused by God , what is your explanation for the events im sure you have a rational explanation for all of them already
it's not that we're "not open to the possibility that it could be caused by God", we are unconvinced that any of them are actual miracles.
Anytime any of these are examined with any level of critical scrutiny, the miraculous becomes mundane. There are more likely natural or other mundane explanations for every single one of them.
I also find it interesting that you didn't list any miracles that are claimed by Hindus or Muslims. Only the ones that support the one out of 1000's of gods you happen to believe in.
i just did a google search and copy and pasted a link that listed the top 10 miracles i did not choose it based on religious preference i have no preference for any man made religion
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 4:01 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 3:58 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: Maybe we should back up for a moment. Jenny, in your own words (no external links or quotes), what is the scientific method?
Excellent question.
I was going to post something similar earlier on after she posted something to the effect, "Well, they've never been proven to be hoaxes".
Which I'm sure she has no clue what the problems with that statement are.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 4:03 pm
(This post was last modified: October 15, 2015 at 4:29 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 15, 2015 at 3:38 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 3:36 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: what evidence would you believe?
That depends on the claim. Generally - the same evidence scientists would believe. Testable. Repeatable. Reliable.
(October 15, 2015 at 3:36 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: what would convince you that God exists ?
Which one of the thousands of gods?
ok so only when science advances to the point where God can be observed , assuming of course that one day scientists take the idea of discovering God seriously and put an effort into discovery which is very unlikely , just wondering
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 15, 2015 at 4:04 pm
(October 15, 2015 at 4:00 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 15, 2015 at 3:35 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: it's not that we're "not open to the possibility that it could be caused by God", we are unconvinced that any of them are actual miracles.
Anytime any of these are examined with any level of critical scrutiny, the miraculous becomes mundane. There are more likely natural or other mundane explanations for every single one of them.
I also find it interesting that you didn't list any miracles that are claimed by Hindus or Muslims. Only the ones that support the one out of 1000's of gods you happen to believe in.
i just did a google search and copy and pasted a link that listed the top 10 miracles i did not choose it based on religious preference i have no preference for any man made religion
Doesn't matter.
I did a very quick search on a few of those supposed miracles, and they all turn out to have much more likely natural explanations. Hoax is just one of many possibilities.
So, why do you believe the so called miracles in the list you posted are legitimate?
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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