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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 7:12 pm
(October 17, 2015 at 6:56 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: i really dont know if there is a way to give you proof outside of you personally experiencing it yourself but while that would convince you personally its not going to convince anyone else only you , maybe technology will someday be able to provide some proof but right now science knows very little about the mind and thoughts other than observing brain activity during thought processes but thats physical reaction . technology is going to continue to become more advanced even if science doesnt take a specific interest in detecting God the interest in thoughts and what they are and where they come from is going to lead to tech advances having to do with thoughts i think .
We don't even have to go down any of that road. Let's eliminate the more mundane and obvious explanations first, before leaping that far.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 7:23 pm
(This post was last modified: October 17, 2015 at 7:32 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 17, 2015 at 6:58 pm)Evie Wrote: jenny1972 Wrote:[...] there could be some intelligence out there that is not at all like the God portrayed by religions ?
So Jenny are you a deist or do you also believe in Christ?
By the way, I responded to your PM.
i am just a deist but i believe there was a man named Jesus (or whatever his true original name was before being translated into "jesus") and that he had a relationship with God and if miracles were performed they were done by Gods power not his.
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 7:25 pm
You don't believe he was the son of god or god incarnate though? You believe he was just a mortal but god may have granted him some powers then?
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 7:25 pm
(This post was last modified: October 17, 2015 at 7:56 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 17, 2015 at 7:12 pm)Stimbo Wrote: (October 17, 2015 at 6:56 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: i really dont know if there is a way to give you proof outside of you personally experiencing it yourself but while that would convince you personally its not going to convince anyone else only you , maybe technology will someday be able to provide some proof but right now science knows very little about the mind and thoughts other than observing brain activity during thought processes but thats physical reaction . technology is going to continue to become more advanced even if science doesnt take a specific interest in detecting God the interest in thoughts and what they are and where they come from is going to lead to tech advances having to do with thoughts i think .
We don't even have to go down any of that road. Let's eliminate the more mundane and obvious explanations first, before leaping that far.
ok
(October 17, 2015 at 7:25 pm)Evie Wrote: You don't believe he was the son of god or god incarnate though? You believe he was just a mortal but god may have granted him some powers then?
no i believe he was just an ordinary man who was conceived and came into the natural world the natural way just like all other humans . he had a relationship with God and was inspired by God and im sure even before his death there were various different cults that taught different doctrines about how he was a magical being in a variety of different ways he was God , he was not even flesh at all it was an illusion he was just a spirit , he was an angel , exc
.... through survival of the fittest a form a christianity emerged from the earliest cults and then of course christianity evolved the new testament was hobbled together based on politics and culture of the times .
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 8:35 pm
(October 17, 2015 at 5:53 pm)Irrational Wrote: If you're open to the possibility that God is nature, then you should believe God exists (because nature exists). Not necessarily.
Just because nature exists doesn't mean it's a god. That needs to be demonstrated.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 8:38 pm
(October 17, 2015 at 8:35 pm)LostLocke Wrote: (October 17, 2015 at 5:53 pm)Irrational Wrote: If you're open to the possibility that God is nature, then you should believe God exists (because nature exists). Not necessarily.
Just because nature exists doesn't mean it's a god. That needs to be demonstrated.
Out of curiosity, how would this be demonstrated in your view?
If God and nature are the same, then nature existing means God existing.
However, it's possible you are seeing that premise differently from me.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 8:43 pm
I think the distinction here is there a big difference between merely labeling nature with the word "God" and actually believing nature has some kind of godly intelligence.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 8:44 pm
(This post was last modified: October 17, 2015 at 9:01 pm by robvalue.)
I'm getting a bit tired of you calling everyone close minded Jenny because they won't just accept what you say at face value.
Waiting for satisfactory evidence before believing something is not being closed minded, it's being properly sceptical. You do it all the time I'm sure, in relation to other subjects. Or do you just believe everything anyone tells you about anything?
I suspect almost everyone here would love to have some sort of communication with God. But that's not the sort of thing you can pursue; it's kind of up to him. If he's waiting for us to jump through hoops first, then he is being ridiculous. Even if we wanted to, every theist tells us different versions of what the hoops are, and none of them work either. If someone wants it bad enough, they can end up deluding themselves into thinking they are hearing from God, that's about it. We are pattern seekers by nature, and we'll make patterns out of nothing to confirm our desires or biases.
Either God wants to communicate with us or he doesn't. If he does, then our scepticism (or closed mindedness as you call it) is apparently more powerful than he is and can block the communication. If you're suggesting he refuses to talk to us until we drop all scepticism, then you're completely making my point for me.
Most atheists here have put a great deal of thought into all of this and you insult their intelligence by just announcing you are right and that we're closed minded. If there was evidence, we would believe. You have shown none. You have decided that what you experience is God, and expect us to somehow do the impossible and show that it isn't. That is being closed minded. There are plenty of much more reasonable explanations. We could just call you crazy, but instead most of us have shown you the courtesy of taking you seriously.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 8:46 pm
For what it's worth, I don't think she means any harm.
Debating can be so futile.
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RE: Atheism. The UNscientific belief (part two)
October 17, 2015 at 8:46 pm
Honestly, I'm not sure how someone would go about that.
But the way I'm interpreting this idea would be something like this....
An atheist and a "nature theist" would both look at nature and basically agree on its 'nature' aspect. But then the theist would say, "It's also God." Well now, they would somehow need to demonstrate this additional quality. If there is no additional demonstrable quality, then all they're doing is changing one word for another which is, basically, pointless.
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