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Theists, what does faith mean to you?
#21
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
(July 24, 2015 at 7:51 pm)Tartarus Sauce Wrote: It is of course a rather commonly held notion by atheists that faith is an excuse theists hide behind to justify what they view as an irrational mode of thinking, a flag to be waved to elevate bad forms of thinking to the status of a virtue. As a result most debates between atheists and theists reach an impasse due to this central contention; theists tend to justify their beliefs through faith while atheists contend that faith is a bad means of justifying any belief.

I know how atheists feel about faith, that's not what this thread is for. Instead I inquire the forum theists to share what faith means to them. What do you think faith is and how would you define it? Do you consider your beliefs to be faith-based? How does faith affect your life? Do you think you'd be a different person if faith was no longer an integral component of identity? And so on.

I look forward to your answers.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only theist on here willing to respond to these posts.   Wink

 I find it quite interesting how the word "faith" has evolved over the last few hundred years and even more so in the last 20 years.  In the world’s eyes, to say "I have faith" means: I believe something but I’m not sure if it’s true or real, but I need it to be and I want it to be, so I have faith. You make that big leap into the dark. Strong faith, therefore, would be when you suspect what you believe isn’t true, and you are still able to believe it. That’s strong faith. The strongest possible kind of faith you could have would be when you know it’s not true and you’re still able to believe it. I mean, how much faith do you need then?

The word faith comes from the Latin 'fides' from which we get the word "fidelity".  Simlarly in Greek, The word faith comes from the Greek word 'pistis'.  This word, pistis, ultimately comes from the verb "peitho", which means "to be persuaded". ‘Pistis’, therefore, the noun, carries the same kind of connotation. It means that you are persuaded as to something’s truth and reality, therefore you can trust it.

I have faith in God as the creator of this universe, author of life as I can see His workings in reality, history, morality, in my own life and others lives that I am persuaded to have faith in Him.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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#22
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
(July 25, 2015 at 5:26 am)robvalue Wrote: A friend suggested to me that faith is a way of claiming absolute certainty. And because of that certainty, evidence is not required.

What a truly dangerous concept.


The only thing certain is uncertainty.  In that you can be certain.
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#23
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
(July 25, 2015 at 5:22 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(July 25, 2015 at 12:58 pm)hilary Wrote: I honestly feel certain types of faith, certain beliefs in certain things, should die. I think humans are grown up enough; we've learned enough to not need to believe in them anymore.

It's almost like a child growing up. We've got to let go of certain childish things. Or else we'll be at this stage forever.

Christ said unless one has the faith of a child he can't be saved.

GC


In this way, the institutions of religion exploit belief masquerading as faith with the effect -intended or not- of infantilizing mankind.
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#24
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
(July 27, 2015 at 3:18 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:  I find it quite interesting how the word "faith" has evolved over the last few hundred years and even more so in the last 20 years.  In the world’s eyes, to say "I have faith" means: I believe something but I’m not sure if it’s true or real, but I need it to be and I want it to be, so I have faith. You make that big leap into the dark. Strong faith, therefore, would be when you suspect what you believe isn’t true, and you are still able to believe it. That’s strong faith. The strongest possible kind of faith you could have would be when you [b]know it’s not true and you’re still able to believe it. [/b]


So are you an agnostic theist then?  No shame in that, around here at least.  I can't imagine being other than agnostic but I can easily imagine ways in which it would be possible to claim theism.  (It just requires lowering the bar considerably, demoting God from interpersonal to intrapersonal.)

I think the emphasis with "faith" should be on your ability to trust it rather than it being empirically true.  So it isn't really a matter of knowing it is or isn't true.  It is simply a matter of your having embraced it as such for yourself.  Faith is therefore a statement about how important something is to you, not about the world as such.
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#25
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
(July 27, 2015 at 4:12 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:
(July 27, 2015 at 3:18 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:  I find it quite interesting how the word "faith" has evolved over the last few hundred years and even more so in the last 20 years.  In the world’s eyes, to say "I have faith" means: I believe something but I’m not sure if it’s true or real, but I need it to be and I want it to be, so I have faith. You make that big leap into the dark. Strong faith, therefore, would be when you suspect what you believe isn’t true, and you are still able to believe it. That’s strong faith. The strongest possible kind of faith you could have would be when you [b]know it’s not true and you’re still able to believe it. [/b]


So are you an agnostic theist then?  No shame in that, around here at least.  I can't imagine being other than agnostic but I can easily imagine ways in which it would be possible to claim theism.  (It just requires lowering the bar considerably, demoting God from interpersonal to intrapersonal.)

I think the emphasis with "faith" should be on your ability to trust it rather than it being empirically true.  So it isn't really a matter of knowing it is or isn't true.  It is simply a matter of your having embraced it as such for yourself.  Faith is therefore a statement about how important something is to you, not about the world as such.

I believe anyone that claims to be a gnostic theist is being disingenuous.  I cannot claim to know something with certainty without proof.  I cannot prove God exists but I believe I can rationally and logically make sense of evidence for the existence of a God in so much as to believe it to be true and therefore put faith in it.  

I fully agree with your second statement.  Faith is not a matter of knowing something to be true, it is indeed based on embracing it as true for myself but based on truth and reality.  If I say that I have faith that my friend will repay his loan to me, that does not mean I will get repaid.  It simply means I believe he is true to his word and trust that he will do so.  Having faith in God does not mean that God exists.  I must presuppose his existence before I can put faith in Him.  How I come to that presupposition is a different matter entirely.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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#26
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
I just wonder why you presume to know so much about god and what it wants from you. If you're careful enough in your reasoning to acknowledge that gnostic theism is disingenuous, why assume that the god you suppose exists is either the Christian one as revealed by the bible, or else nothing at all? I find that troubling.
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#27
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
(July 27, 2015 at 5:08 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: I just wonder why you presume to know so much about god and what it wants from you.  If you're careful enough in your reasoning to acknowledge that gnostic theism is disingenuous, why assume that the god you suppose exists is either the Christian one as revealed by the bible, or else nothing at all?  I find that troubling.

Whateverist, that is a different discussion entirely and one that I would be happy to have but is a pointless discussion to have if you do not first agree there must indeed be A God.  Once you accept the premise that there must be a God only then can you ask the question, which God?  But if you are coming from the premise that there is no God it is pointless to have that discussion.
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.
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#28
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
But why must there be a god, and if there must be a god why must it be more vast than everything and eternal? We know of nothing else like that, why suppose a god is all that?

I guess I'm wondering where you get the idea that there must be gods of the sort you already happen to believe in?
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#29
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
(July 25, 2015 at 4:40 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Being a theist means never having to come to terms that you're wrong.

I think you're over estimating them.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#30
RE: Theists, what does faith mean to you?
Faith is the acceptance of something in the absence of evidence, in my mind.  In regards to religious belief, I go a step further to regard faith as belief in spite of evidence that points to the contrary.
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