Why is Faith/Belief a Moral Issue?

[RobbyPants]

People reject the Abrahamic deity because there is no evidence such a being exists and theists’ efforts to prove otherwise have not been compelling.  Why then is it considered a virtue to psych one’s self out and just believe in things one knows are not true? How is that good?  Why is it a moral failing to stand on one’s intellectual integrity?

Ascribing virtue or vice to one’s status as a believer makes as much sense as saying men who eat bananas are good in bed.

It's not so much an issue that Christians believe that believing in counter-factual things makes you morally superior. They believe that

• God exists
  
• God is the origin of morality
  
• God will punish you for not swearing the proper oath of fealty
  

So, it's not that they think that it is moral to believe counter-factual things, but rather that it is the highest moral good to believe this one particular counter-factual thing. It's just the logical extension of tying punishment and reward to belief in a nonfalsifiable entity.

But yeah, it is absurd, but not quite in the way that you're stating it.

[Pyrrho]

People reject the Abrahamic deity because there is no evidence such a being exists and theists’ efforts to prove otherwise have not been compelling.  Why then is it considered a virtue to psych one’s self out and just believe in things one knows are not true? ...

Religion often totally warps one's sense of morality. There was a thread or two not too long ago in which Christians were arguing that the rape and murder in the Bible was a good thing. And slavery, too. (Maybe someone will provide a link or two for this, but as I am not wanting to look at such vile things right now, I will not presently provide links.)

This, by the way, is one of the reasons religion is evil. It really messes up people's sense of right and wrong, not just their sense of what exists in the world.

[Faith No More]

No one claims that Christians are any better than anyone else, only that no one on their own is good enough. All have fallen short etc etc. Faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ is recognition that there is a higher moral authority than Man. Thus the profession of belief is the start of the process of regeneration that leads to salvation. It doesn't matter where you are morally. What matters is the direction you are headed.

That's total bullshit, Chad, and I think even you have enough sense to recognize that. If Christians didn't claim to be superior, they wouldn't be trying to force everyone else to kowtow to their beliefs and live according to them, and if I had a dime for each Christian visitor to this site that proudly boasted total superiority over the lowly atheists, we could fund this site's server for a decade.

Christians may profess with their mouths that non-believers are equal, but they're actions say that they've let the feeling of "salvation" go to their head.

[Drich]

People reject the Abrahamic deity because there is no evidence such a being exists and theists’ efforts to prove otherwise have not been compelling.  Why then is it considered a virtue to psych one’s self out and just believe in things one knows are not true? How is that good?  Why is it a moral failing to stand on one’s intellectual integrity?

Ascribing virtue or vice to one’s status as a believer makes as much sense as saying men who eat bananas are good in bed. Let’s look at the proof. Statistics show that men who are good in bed have at some point eaten at least one banana in their lives. So hands down, the proof is irrefutable. And when you consider the phallic shape of bananas, that’s even more proof.

I’m not trying to be funny. Just making a point about the ridiculous assumption that nonbelievers are essentially bad and believers are essentially good. Tell some people you’re an atheist and they automatically assume they know all about you and what you will do.

This is absurd.

That's the thing... It's not about being good or bad/morality in any way shape or form. We know this because Christ extends the moral law to include thought. Meaning no one is worthy, no not one according to Paul, that for the best of us our lives/our BEST deeds are but dirty rags to God (Actual translation=dirty menstral rags) Why does Christ 'complete the law' in this way? so we would know to seek the 'righteousness' needed to spend eternity with God another way, or apart from seeking it though 'morality.'/Good deeds.

This other way is atonement. Which means one has to be a believer to accept the atonement offered by Christ.

This is where Christianity/Biblical Christianity differs from ALL other religions.

[brewer]

No one claims that Christians are any better than anyone else

Not sure what part of the world you're in but here in Nebraska it's the christians claiming that they are better. Even the catholics and protestants go at each other, just not out in the open or to each others face.

[Minimalist]

You're different all right, drippy.  In a short-bus sense of the word.

[Neo-Scholastic]

Not sure what part of the world you're in but here in Nebraska it's the christians claiming that they are better. Even the catholics and protestants go at each other, just not out in the open or to each others face.

Not all Protestants...pretty much just the Lutherans. Grrrr.

[Rhondazvous]

No one claims that Christians are any better than anyone else, only that no one on their own is good enough. All have fallen short etc etc. Faith in the Lordship of Jesus Christ is recognition that there is a higher moral authority than Man. Thus the profession of belief is the start of the process of regeneration that leads to salvation. It doesn't matter where you are morally. What matters is the direction you are headed.

Here is your higher moral authority:

When you go out to war against your enemies, and the LORD your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her.

This is a part of the Mosaic Law, so this is a commandment—official instructions on what to do with women prisoners. Does it need explaining? Okay god is supposedly the same today, yesterday and forever, so if rape was okay in biblical times, then it is okay now. When I read this passage, I see my little sisters—still virgins and gentiles so fair game for god’s holy minions to do with as they pleased. Orphaned, kidnapped raped and if they do not please the man who raped them he is instructed to throw them out on the streets of a strange and hostile land.

I’m sorry, but I can’t read stuff like this and say in my heart, this is the god I want to serve. I can’t read stuff like this and say in my mind, this is the book I want to look to for moral instruction.

Yet, this is what the Church has to offer in terms of a higher moral authority. It frightens me to live on the same planet with people who try to justify such atrocities.

[Rhondazvous]

People reject the Abrahamic deity because there is no evidence such a being exists and theists’ efforts to prove otherwise have not been compelling.  Why then is it considered a virtue to psych one’s self out and just believe in things one knows are not true? How is that good?  Why is it a moral failing to stand on one’s intellectual integrity?

Ascribing virtue or vice to one’s status as a believer makes as much sense as saying men who eat bananas are good in bed.

It's not so much an issue that Christians believe that believing in counter-factual things makes you morally superior. They believe that

• God exists
  
• God is the origin of morality
  
• God will punish you for not swearing the proper oath of fealty
  

So, it's not that they think that it is moral to believe counter-factual things, but rather that it is the highest moral good to believe this one particular counter-factual thing. It's just the logical extension of tying punishment and reward to belief in a nonfalsifiable entity.

But yeah, it is absurd, but not quite in the way that you're stating it.

Hey Robby,

I don't see where our ideas diverge here. It looks like we agree on the major gist.

[brewer]

Not sure what part of the world you're in but here in Nebraska it's the christians claiming that they are better. Even the catholics and protestants go at each other, just not out in the open or to each others face.

Not all Protestants...pretty much just the Lutherans. Grrrr.

You need to get out more. No, wait. On second thought please stay in. You loose in public, perish the thought.