A reason to believe?

[KichigaiNeko]

Because a belief in God intrinsically embraces positivity whereas a purely naturalist worldview would be balanced with no bias.

Epic FAIL

You're a fucking idiot ...I've concluded

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Can you see how it's different?

Moi?? Idiot?? well that is YOUR prerogative fr0d0. Won't argue with you there...quite frankly don't care since I don't need to appease anyone. (no god, no person, niente zip)

No possum can't see any difference between 'Old' Christianity and 'New Age' christianity same shit ...different day. Let's face it xtians are screwed no matter what they think they evolving into.

YOUR god REALLY POSITIVELY HATES you!! Always has...insecure little shit that he is.

[Ace Otana]

You seriously doubt it, but you don't know. And you refuse to accept that having a positive basis produces a different effect to no basis?? If you're going to deny reason to that extreme I guess there's no changing your mind.

I seriously doubt it because there is nothing to suggest that it's even remotely true.
I don't see religion as a positive thing. Ignorance is bliss, true but so is understanding (for me anyway).
I don't know but I don't think you do either. I never claimed to know, I said I seriously doubt it.

[fr0d0]

Christianity divides positive and negative, embracing positivity. Shit still happens. Realism is still invoked. Logical reasoning is effected to positive result.

Christianity divides positive and negative on an arbitrary basis established by people I wouldn't want to meet alone in a dark alley.

True, but then you're not talking about Christianity, but people.

There are several problems:

1. There is no "right" or "wrong" - moral absolutism is one of the worst things about christianity (and most other religions, too). It leads to intolerance and arrogance based on values one is not allowed to even think about. It is not a given that your or my set of ethical values is the best (whatever that should mean) - it is important to question these values.

In essence Christianity is about questioning your values unselfishly. Again, you're talking perversion by people.

2. Realism is not involved at all. If this was the case, religion wouldn't need a divine being that punishes those who disobey.

I don't see how this is relevant. In our secular society there's punishment for wrongdoing. None of us are free from it. People thrive knowing their boundaries. It would be incorrect to conclude that Christianity was about fear. That would be to miss the point.

3. Logic and religion are completely incommensurate, as religion builds on faith that is founded purely irrationally.

Whilst faith has to be irrational, the consideration of theology is entirely rational and logically coherent internally.

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Moi?? Idiot?? well that is YOUR prerogative fr0d0. Won't argue with you there...quite frankly don't care since I don't need to appease anyone. (no god, no person, niente zip)

No possum can't see any difference between 'Old' Christianity and 'New Age' christianity same shit ...different day. Let's face it xtians are screwed no matter what they think they evolving into.

YOUR god REALLY POSITIVELY HATES you!! Always has...insecure little shit that he is.

I'm appeasing someone? Do you think of yourself as some sort of sacrifice KN? Wow!

Ok, let me revise that... you're on another planet?? ...I sure have no idea what you're on about.

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You seriously doubt it, but you don't know. And you refuse to accept that having a positive basis produces a different effect to no basis?? If you're going to deny reason to that extreme I guess there's no changing your mind.

I seriously doubt it because there is nothing to suggest that it's even remotely true.
I don't see religion as a positive thing. Ignorance is bliss, true but so is understanding (for me anyway).
I don't know but I don't think you do either. I never claimed to know, I said I seriously doubt it.

Well if I find myself lacking understanding in something, I hope I'd usually say "I don't know".

(I believe) You're trying to conflate the merit's of faith here with knowledge of the existence of God. The two things are different subjects, and I can tell you confidently that the search for evidence is futile.

[Ace Otana]

and I can tell you confidently that the search for evidence is futile.

I know. Why do you think I'm an atheist?
You can't convince me of the existance of god without evidence.
There is no reason to believe in any of it.

Want me to put the kettle on old boy?

[fr0d0]

Yeh c'mon lets 'av a cuppa!

[Paul the Human]

This was the reason that I posted this thread in the first place. I wanted to demonstrate (to myself) that there can be no belief in god without faith, because there is no compelling reason to believe in god that does not require god to exist. Therefore, I feel that I have no reason to believe in god. I am incapable of faith in something with no evidence (in the religious sense of the word, of course I have faith that my mom will be alive when I arrive at her house later, for example).

[Edwardo Piet]

-It gives you a reason for your existence: if you follow the teachings of Jesus the goal of your life is to be a good, kind, generous person.
-It gives you a set of permanent moral values that can guide you through your life.
-It can get you a social network on which you can always count on no matter what happens to you. Even if you sin they will help you repent.
-It is free.

Why NOT believe in God ?

Why not? How about the following. Because: out of every single one of the reasons you so confidently gave above not one of them was evidence whatsoever that belief in God is actually true.

The reason to believe is the quality of life belief gives.

That's the whole point... greater appreciation of life as it can be.

And the same applies to what fr0d0 said here. Not one reason to believe that the belief is actually true. Just a load of false hope. What a load of fucking bullshit.

EvF

[Atheist_named_Christian]

There are several problems:

1. There is no "right" or "wrong" - moral absolutism is one of the worst things about christianity (and most other religions, too). It leads to intolerance and arrogance based on values one is not allowed to even think about. It is not a given that your or my set of ethical values is the best (whatever that should mean) - it is important to question these values.

In essence Christianity is about questioning your values unselfishly. Again, you're talking perversion by people.

No, it is not (yes it is that simple). Religion is exactly about NOT questioning the values of your respective church. Christian authorities are giving ABSLOUTE ethical values which are not to be questioned. As soon as you start thinking about any kind of religion it will turn out to be either illogical or completely pointless.

2. Realism is not involved at all. If this was the case, religion wouldn't need a divine being that punishes those who disobey.

I don't see how this is relevant. In our secular society there's punishment for wrongdoing. None of us are free from it. People thrive knowing their boundaries. It would be incorrect to conclude that Christianity was about fear. That would be to miss the point.

First of all: Society is not at all secular - at least in most states. Maybe in Scandinavia and France. Elsewhere: NO.
And actually, I think Christianity is almost exclusively about exploiting peoples fears - mostly their primal fear: What happens, when I die - and it gives them a completely stupid answer. But people are so desperate in this matter, that they accept ANY positive answer. But it is bullshit - no one knows what "happens" to you after death and the most likely answer is simply NOTHING. But that is hard to accept.

3. Logic and religion are completely incommensurate, as religion builds on faith that is founded purely irrationally.

Whilst faith has to be irrational, the consideration of theology is entirely rational and logically coherent internally.

I fully agree here, but I also do not see how any theologist would come to a conclusion other than: There is no god. There is for sure no rational argument for the existence of god and the historical evidence for jesus is highly questionable (and if he existed he is for sure not god's son).
I came to the conclusion, that the more intelligent theologists surely know that religion is bullshit; but they just keep it up in order not to be rendered completely useless. It is almost certain that most high authorities of religious institutions do themselves not believe what they actually tell.
THE POPE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD!

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Why not? How about the following. Because: out of every single one of the reasons you so confidently gave above not one of them was evidence whatsoever that belief in God is actually true.

Completely true! But it happens quite often, that believers defend their ideas just by rendering them "useful". I think that this directly shows, that these people are not able to think logically as soon as matters get slightly more complicated.

And even these arguments can be easily proven wrong - religion is not at all useful to humanity. It's very much the opposite.

[tavarish]

True, but then you're not talking about Christianity, but people.

No, he's talking about the origins of Christian doctrine.

In essence Christianity is about questioning your values unselfishly. Again, you're talking perversion by people.

Not true at all. Christianity is about adopting a set of preordained values in hopes of gaining an ultimate reward in the afterlife. Questioning and Christianity don't belong in the same sentence. It's conformity - plain and simple.

I don't see how this is relevant. In our secular society there's punishment for wrongdoing. None of us are free from it. People thrive knowing their boundaries. It would be incorrect to conclude that Christianity was about fear. That would be to miss the point.

Accept my gift or burn in hellfire? That isn't a scare tactic?

Whilst faith has to be irrational, the consideration of theology is entirely rational and logically coherent internally.

Ok, so the fairy tale can be rational internally, but to believe such a thing is true is irrational.

Do theologists know the premise of their belief is illogical?

Well if I find myself lacking understanding in something, I hope I'd usually say "I don't know".

Unless it's about God.

(I believe) You're trying to conflate the merit's of faith here with knowledge of the existence of God. The two things are different subjects, and I can tell you confidently that the search for evidence is futile.

How do you know this?

[Caecilian]

Here are 4 good reasons to believe:

1. Freedom is scary. The freedom to decide how you want to live, to choose your own ethics, to make your own judgements, is just too frightening to contemplate. Much better to believe in a God and follow a holy scripture. Be one of God's sheep, and go with the rest of the flock.

2. You don't want to die. Of course you don't. So its much better to believe that you're actually immortal, and that a place in Heaven awaits you. You'll sleep much better after you start believing in an afterlife.

3. Feeling superior is nice. Everyone wants to feel that they're better than someone else. Believe in God and you can consider yourself SAVED. Award yourself 1,000 kudos and look down your nose at those unfortunate non-believers (they're gonna burn).

4. Thinking is tough. If you're an atheist then you'll probably try to understand difficult material like science, or maths or analytical philosophy- atheists think that kind of stuff helps them to understand the world. But you really don't need to strain your brain at all. Become religious and all of the important answers get handed to you on a plate. No need for serious thinking ever again.