If You Were A Theist

[dyresand]

Hello everyone, this is a spin off of this thread: http://atheistforums.org/thread-35404.html ...posted by Shuffle. 

While it is a a very difficult question to answer, I thought it was interesting to think about, and wanted to ask the rest of you and hear answers from the other side.  

Anyone can answer, of course, but I am most interested in hearing from those who have been atheist their whole lives, or at least, who have never been a devout/practicing theist. 

If you were a theist tomorrow, how would you change the rest of your life? Personality, morals, etc.

Thanks!

EDIT TO ADD: Any of the Abrahamic religions.

I don't know when i was a theist even then i was like yeah what.. ever god jesus blah blah

[CapnAwesome]

Well there is tremendous difference, since Judaism doesn't come with a belief in hell. I mean I don't think that Theism is at all specific enough. Is there an afterlife? For me that's the more important hypothetical anyway.

All 3 Abrahamic religions have an afterlife, right?

Well Judaism is very vague on the subject.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso...rlife.html


However if I believed in an afterlife and that I had to follow a set of rules to get there, I would do whatever I thought that set of rules is. This is the unfortunately logical outcome of belief in an afterlife. Our real life is short and people who think that by one way or another they'll get to heaven, will do anything to do it. We've seen this reflect in positive and negative ways but the negatives are very obvious.

[Homeless Nutter]

My point is a lot of people here do that. Just jump into a thread and say some short, nasty thing about theists and/or their beliefs, and then leave. I'm not complaining about this, as I know it is an atheist forum, just pointing out that if that is trolling, then trolling is done here all the time, but doesn't get called out unless it's by a theist.

Dude has a point! We do do that. I say - let Fat-face... I mean - Chad speak his twisted little mind. 

Theists drool!

I'm out...

[CapnAwesome]

You see Catholic Lady, they cannot imagine being accountable to anyone other than themselves. They accuse us of wishful thinking, but in reality they find the notion that they can live however they want without any ultimate consequences irresistible.

You mean as opposed to someone who can't deal with the finality of life and so turns towards a ridiculous dogma as an alternative? Even though deep down you know eventually you become dust like the rest of us.

[Pizza]

You see Catholic Lady, they cannot imagine being accountable to anyone other than themselves. They accuse us of wishful thinking, but in reality they find the notion that they can live however they want without any ultimate consequences irresistible.

Thanks I needed a good laugh today.

[Catholic_Lady]

Thanks for the responses, everyone!

[MTL]

How is he trolling? 

I'm not saying I agree with him, as it is impossible to know what a stranger's motives are. But the assertions he made about you guys are no different in nature from assertions some of you make about us theists all the time.

He jumped into a thread for no other reason than to throw a self-righteous insult that implies that immoral atheists are generally immoral.  These type of posts have become a common theme for Chad here, as he has decided to let go of what little humility he actually had.  That's why it's trolling.

I hope he's trolling, because if he's serious, that was an abysmally inaccurate statement.

I am Agnostic, and I take personal accountability extremely seriously.

I absolutely believe in consequences:
I simply think that the consequences occur here, now, in THIS life
....not some fabled life that is yet to come.

I have zero respect for those who think they are exempt from consequences.

So,

when Chad W says,

" they cannot imagine being accountable to anyone other than themselves "

or,

" they find the notion that they can live however they want without any ultimate consequences irresistible."

This IS trolling....and I thought it was obvious as to why....but okay, here's the explanation:

There is ZERO justification to slander Atheists with accusations of being unaccountable human beings,
right across the board.

PLENTY of Atheists are decent, kind, brave, accountable and self-sacrificing people.

Not all of them, but many of them.

Likewise, NOT all Theists are good human beings:  many of them preach good values,
...but are hypocritical, cowardly, irresponsible, deceitful, self-serving, judgmental and vicious people.

Again, not all...but many.

Josh Duggar leaps to mind.  So does my Christian grandmother.  An awful woman.

In short, as I have said in the past,
Theism or Atheism is not the dividing line between what is Good, and what is Evil.

There are both good, and bad, Atheist people.

There are both good, and bad, Theist people.

We know that you know this.

We know that Chad W. knows this.

Therefore, we strenuously doubt that he made that statement out of mere oblivious stupidity or mental laziness,
but rather out of  the knowledge that such a statement is obviously, flagrantly unjust, and unjustifiable
....and would therefore be seen as inflammatory...
....and is therefore the definition of "trolling".


Now, as far as the alleged double-standard you observe in relation to "trolling" goes:

I cannot argue, Catholic Lady, that many Atheists, including some here, may be quite abrasive, even rude, or downright verbally-abusive towards Theists.

I myself am unrelentingly harsh in my condemnation of religion, as you may have observed.

But remember:  It is only because Theism exists, that Atheism and Anti-Theism exists.

Atheists (and more specifically Anti-Theists) are on the DEFENSIVE, against the Theist Offensive.

To any Theist who naively believes that his Religion is ultimately "good",
any angry Atheists will always SEEM to be the aggressor.

But Religion was the one who first came knocking,
...and over thousands of years, they still refuse to leave people alone.

If Theism had never passed off unsubstantiated theories as if they were undisputed truths,
oppressing, manipulating, silencing, abusing, confusing and depressing people for thousands of years...

...then Atheists wouldn't be so openly scornful and hostile towards it.

If Theism had always been humble, saying instead:

" here's a theory, but we acknowledge it isn't proven "

...then Atheists probably just would have shrugged and said,

" I don't agree...but whatever, suit yourself...as long as nobody gets hurt"

But because Theism is invasive, insidious, duplicitous....Atheists fired up in hostile revolt.

So when Atheists troll a Theist, it is always in defense against the evils of religion.

Even if the Theist means well.

Think about it:  It is actually the Theist who lacks accountability:

They think their good intentions excuse any number of sins;

It is intensely aggravating that Theists think that because they "meant well"
that they are justified in getting all butthurt whenever they encounter an Atheist
who is willing and able to roundly disabuse them of their illusions:

" but but but....what did I do?? "   the Theist asks.

You aligned yourself with an evil ideology,
and then you want to be exempt from accepting the consequences for the evils of that ideology.

Well, sorry, but no dice.

The fact that you didn't think it through is not my problem.

I would only suggest that you learn to think.

You wear the enemy uniform; I don't care if you thought it was a Girl Scout uniform.

As long as you wear it, I will see you as a threat, and rightly so.

The fact that you simply neglected to think it through, does not mollify us. 


So, all this being said,

Theists are the aggressor.

No-one does any wrong by trolling their aggressor.


But when Chad W. trolls Atheists,
he is really just continuing the legacy of Religious persecution
of those who don't believe the same as he does.

[Cato]

Background: Stopped believing in God when I was 8. My Catholic mother knew from the start and aside from insisting that this wasn't to be discussed openly until I was older always supported my intellectual freedom. This did not relieve me of my responsibility of attending mass or completing catechism through CCD. 

If I was coerced by some means, it would likely take a gun to the head or some such, to adopt theism tomorrow I would have no problem identifying as Catholic. My experience in the church was very unlike the evangelical Jesus on the brain 24x7 types. CCD on Wednesday after school (pre-confirmation only), mass on Sunday, and the obligatory 'Bless us Oh Lord' prayer at dinner. Outside that, religion was rarely discussed and my grandmother was the type that had a crucifix of some sort on a wall in every room.

There are always exceptions but a vast majority of Catholics that I have known or are still friends with simply don't obsess over religion and Jesus the way evangelicals do. This may be an unfair generalization since I'm very aware that I likely subconsciously weed out those that do obsess over religion regardless of any particular affiliation.

[drfuzzy]

You mean, if I HAD to say that I believed tomorrow?  

The only thing that would cause me to even think about it would be if suddenly I was living in a Theocratic Dictatorship - and they had said "believe or die".   If there was no way to hide and join a resistance, then I would commit suicide.

[KevinM1]

Oh, Wooters did a drive by "You're all nihilists!" thing again? How quaint. And idiotic. But quaint.

I'm essentially the same person now as I was when I considered myself Catholic. I never truly believed in a god. Even as a kid I had my questions and doubts, and simply went along with it because my elders and everyone else around me believed in it/talked about it from time to time. My epiphany was more along the lines of "Oh... yeah, I guess I was always an atheist. Neat. What's for supper?" than any kind of world shattering event.

So, I cannot say what I'd be like if I truly believed because I have never truly believed. I have no real way of knowing if I'd change, or how those changes would manifest if they did occur because I have no experience actually being a believer. Might as well ask how different I'd be if I was born in, say, Germany.