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Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
#21
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
(September 4, 2015 at 1:40 am)robvalue Wrote: Cecelia: Have you heard of an apologist called William Lane Craig? He stated that even if he was taken back in time and was shown Jesus never existed, he would still believe in Christianity. He would assume he was being tricked.

So in other words, when realility contradicts religion, reality must be wrong. I think it's a common mantra. The narrative must be preserved at all costs; the mental effort necessary to fudge facts is less than is required to stop and actually consider you may have been wrong for a very long time.

I'm vaguely familiar with Craig.  I've never heard one of his arguments, but from what I've read about him he's the type of guy who 'wins' arguments the same way pigeons win chess games.

(September 4, 2015 at 1:02 pm)Drich Wrote: I unlike most of you, do not like others doing my thinking for me. I don't take an expert at his word, simply because he is deemed an 'expert.' An 'expert is so because generally speaking, they make their living doing what they do, and can be swayed with the right motivation. I would ask to the 'evidence' and make my own conclusions.

I would also have a lot of questions as in:

What does the evidence of someone not existing look like?

Any testimony can be dismissed, or cancled out by contrary testimony.

The lack of records would only be valid if ALL records of that time were accounted for.

So Im logically at a loss at how one can establish how a specific indivisual in the sea of human History can be proven to never existed. At the very best all that can be said is this person existence has not been confirmed. And if we are talking about Christ, then everyone else of that time frame is also suspect, because their is more data on Him and anyone of that period.

So I'm taking this to mean you'd dismiss any such evidence that suggested, for example, that the church invented the character of Jesus entirely. 

Also there's certainly more data on others from that time period than Jesus.  Especially that are actually from around that time period.  I find the bible highly suspect.  It's just another 'expert' that has the proper motivations to convince people otherwise.

(September 4, 2015 at 3:49 pm)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: To answer the OP, I used to be a Christian (yes, a True Christian, fuck you people), and I encountered evidence that convinced me Jesus of Nazareth most likely did not exist as a historical person, and when I did I immediately de-converted to atheism. While a lot of Christians are prone to sticking their fingers in their ears, they're not all beyond hope. I wasn't.


Interesting.  I'm curious mostly because of how Christianity and Judaism are tied together.  I suppose Islam and other faiths are also connected to both of them as well.  Do you think that the evidence the suggested Jesus most likely didn't exist also convinced you that other religions were 'full of it' (pardon the term)?  Do you think you were less likely to believe other religions as a result? (Thus choosing Atheism because you accepted the evidence that led you to your conclusion that your religion was not telling the truth)
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#22
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
To me it's completely irrelevant if Jesus existed.  He said that he had been sent only to the Jews.  I'm not a Jew so he wasn't sent to me.


In Hebrews 2:16 it says that he was sent to help the descendants of Abraham.  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...JV;WEB;CEV
The last person in the history of humanity I want to be related to is that crazy old coot or any of his offspring.  Even Jesus said that bad trees don't bear good fruit and Abraham was rotten to the core.
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#23
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
Chances are you're related to pretty much everybody from around 1 BC. At least anyone who had descendants.
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#24
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
There would be huge groups of Xtians here in the US of A who would create isolated communities.  They would fight harder than ever against the "evil" scientists, historians, and archaeologists.  You would see piles of books written and videos created PROVING the scientists wrong.

[Image: Sticks+fingers+in+ears+that+never+happen...56a57c.gif]
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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#25
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
(September 3, 2015 at 11:44 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Hypothetical here.  I'm sure some don't want to answer with anything other than "That would never happen,"  I'll get to that in a moment.

Say that some evidence surfaced that strongly suggested that Jesus never existed.  Evidence that was so strong that even many Apologetics accept it.  The Historical Jesus didn't exist, and most historians accepted that as a fact.

What would you do?

Would you convert to Judaism?
Would you ignore the evidence? (I'll assume this is your answer if you say "That would never happen")
Would you stop believing in god altogether?

I'm curious as to what people would think they would do.  Other Atheists can say what they think people would do.  Personally I think a few would convert to Judaism, and many would ignore the evidence.  I'm curious about what their logic would be behind their choice if such strong evidence surfaced?  I mean many people deny that the world is billions of years old despite all evidence suggesting otherwise.

I'd probably stop believing in God altogether. But I'd also be very confused and, due to past personal experiences, would start to question my own sanity.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#26
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
(September 4, 2015 at 7:27 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But I'd also be very confused and, due to past personal experiences, would start to question my own sanity.

CL, you'll never understand this but all we atheists do.
You statement above is exactly 180degrees skewed from reality.
The indoctrination does that, it turns everything you think you know on its head.

We still luv ya, crazy or not! Shy Heart
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#27
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
(September 4, 2015 at 8:09 pm)ignoramus Wrote:
(September 4, 2015 at 7:27 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But I'd also be very confused and, due to past personal experiences, would start to question my own sanity.

CL, you'll never understand this but all we atheists do.
You statement above is exactly 180degrees skewed from reality.
The indoctrination does that, it turns everything you think you know on its head.

We still luv ya, crazy or not! Shy  Heart

Luv ya too, friend! [Image: loveshower.gif]
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#28
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
(September 4, 2015 at 7:27 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(September 3, 2015 at 11:44 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Hypothetical here.  I'm sure some don't want to answer with anything other than "That would never happen,"  I'll get to that in a moment.

Say that some evidence surfaced that strongly suggested that Jesus never existed.  Evidence that was so strong that even many Apologetics accept it.  The Historical Jesus didn't exist, and most historians accepted that as a fact.

What would you do?

Would you convert to Judaism?
Would you ignore the evidence? (I'll assume this is your answer if you say "That would never happen")
Would you stop believing in god altogether?

I'm curious as to what people would think they would do.  Other Atheists can say what they think people would do.  Personally I think a few would convert to Judaism, and many would ignore the evidence.  I'm curious about what their logic would be behind their choice if such strong evidence surfaced?  I mean many people deny that the world is billions of years old despite all evidence suggesting otherwise.

I'd probably stop believing in God altogether. But I'd also be very confused and, due to past personal experiences, would start to question my own sanity.

Really surprised me to see this. Kudos to you for answering honestly! 

I "experienced " things as a Christian as well, CL, it's a normal thing when one's mind is under the influence of strong belief. 


See, Drippy, current beliefs can be suspended long enough to answer hypothetical questions Angel .
[Image: bbb59Ce.gif]

(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
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#29
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
(September 4, 2015 at 7:27 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'd probably stop believing in God altogether. But I'd also be very confused and, due to past personal experiences, would start to question my own sanity.

I appreciate a straight forward answer to a hypothetical question.

Would you say this is more because you haven't had personal revelations toward other religions, but toward Christianity, and would start questioning those experiences and why they didn't guide you toward a different religion?  Or more because there's something about the other religions that you don't or can't believe?
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#30
RE: Christians - What would you do if it were discovered Jesus never existed?
(September 4, 2015 at 5:25 pm)Cecelia Wrote: Interesting.  I'm curious mostly because of how Christianity and Judaism are tied together.  I suppose Islam and other faiths are also connected to both of them as well.  Do you think that the evidence the suggested Jesus most likely didn't exist also convinced you that other religions were 'full of it' (pardon the term)?  Do you think you were less likely to believe other religions as a result? (Thus choosing Atheism because you accepted the evidence that led you to your conclusion that your religion was not telling the truth)

I had studied a few other world religions and was pretty well convinced that Christianity was the only one that had even a prayer (pardon the pun) of being probable Truth, so once that was dashed I was pretty well convinced that everything supernatural is bullshit. It was very much like when I figured out Santa and stopped believing in him, only for an entire realm of my perceived reality (toward the latter years of my spiritual journey I used to go around calling myself a Christ-following Shaman; I was big into spirituality and mysticism).
Verbatim from the mouth of Jesus (retranslated from a retranslation of a copy of a copy):

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you too will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. How can you see your brother's head up his ass when your own vision is darkened by your head being even further up your ass? How can you say to your brother, 'Get your head out of your ass,' when all the time your head is up your own ass? You hypocrite! First take your head out of your own ass, and then you will see clearly who has his head up his ass and who doesn't." Matthew 7:1-5 (also Luke 6: 41-42)

Also, I has a website: www.RedbeardThePink.com
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