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How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
#21
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
(September 7, 2015 at 11:11 am)Stimbo Wrote: "Beliefs" is a slippery word. Often a person will conflate the subject of their beliefs with the right to have them, and will leap happily between the two as it suits them. Dolphinetics at its purest (I am determined to make that a real thing!)

I don't care what Webster says. If Stimb says Dolphinetics is a word, it's a word. So there.
I take it that it means to leap like e dolphin, or I may be mistaken.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.

I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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#22
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
There's also a big difference between criticising or indeed mocking a belief in general, and doing so in the face of someone you know holds such a belief. The first should remain completely acceptable for the good of everyone. The second is rude when unprovoked.
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#23
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
Unless they're Mormon.
 The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it. 




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#24
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
I must admit that I find it hard to respect a person who believes in total bullshit based on ancient superstitions.

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[Image: 382993_10150451278612772_1937349250_n.jpg]
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#25
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
I think it's a simple rule, Rhonda.

Treat others the way you would want to be treated.

Just as I'm sure you want theists to respect the fact that you are an atheist, you should respect the fact that they are theists. Just treat them the way you want them to treat you! Smile
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#26
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
(September 7, 2015 at 12:33 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote:
(September 7, 2015 at 11:00 am)Rhondazvous Wrote: Theists often complain that we don't respect their beliefs.  I've found that they often want a lot more respect than they're willing to give. So let's explore this question. What does it mean to respect someone's beliefs and why should we?


I think it has something to do with acknowledging that other humans have lived a different life and, given those experiences, who can say with certainty they wouldn't reach the same conclusion?  It is the benefit of the doubt and a recognition that we're not all simplistically the same.  It is more about choosing the kind of world you want to live in.  Do you want to live in a world in which you suspect most of the population are morons?  Or would you rather live in a world where everyone is potentially a peer until proven otherwise?

Great answer, my friend. I stand behind this 100%!
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#27
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
(September 7, 2015 at 1:30 pm)robvalue Wrote: There's also a big difference between criticising or indeed mocking a belief in general, and doing so in the face of someone you know holds such a belief. The first should remain completely acceptable for the good of everyone. The second is rude when unprovoked.

It is often rude even when provoked.  But people do not have a right to stop others from being rude.

In the case of silly beliefs, if, hypothetically, you believed in leprechauns (I am purposely selecting something that I expect is really false, as I do not suppose that you, robvalue, believe in leprechauns), if you want to avoid being publicly ridiculed, the power is in your hands.  All you have to do is keep your mouth shut, and we will not know that you have such a stupid, idiotic belief, and so we cannot mock you specifically for it.  But when you choose to tell us about it, then we can mock you for it.

Public comments are themselves subject to public comment.  If you don't want public comments about your ideas, then do not state them publicly.

Many people seem to have the false belief that they have the right to publicly blather on without others commenting on their moronic statements.  They are just wrong about that.

Anything stated publicly is no longer a purely private matter.  It is then a public matter.

"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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#28
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
I just find it funny how many of these theists that demand respect for their beliefs, don't respect the beliefs of others that disagree with them.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' -Isaac Asimov-
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#29
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
(September 7, 2015 at 11:19 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: If someone gives me a reason to respect their beliefs I will. My default position is that respect is earned and not given.

No belief is inherently 'worth' anything.

And respect is earned, in my book, by the facts that belief is based on, not the strength with which a person believes it or what they are willing to sacrifice because of it.

I believe the ice in that lake can hold my weight based on the fact that it the middle of January and the ice is usually thick this time of year. Or I believe the ice will hold me because god told me I wouldn't get wet today, despite it being the beginning of November and I can see the scales on the fish swimming below the ice.
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.

I may defend your right to free speech, but i won't help you pass out flyers.

Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
--Voltaire

Nietzsche isn't dead. How do I know he lives? He lives in my mind.
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#30
RE: How Do We Respect Other People's Beliefs?
(September 7, 2015 at 12:45 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: I don't think we need to respect the beliefs.   
We need to respect the person, and their right to follow any belief or philosophy, as long as those beliefs do no harm to others. 
Any attempt to force another person to change their belief is disrespect.  It is a very clear statement of "I'm right, you're wrong; 
I'm smart, you're stupid".  As an atheist, I can fall into that trap as easily as a theist can.

That's why I'm here. I want to learn better responses to theist "attacks", and I want to learn how to keep my cool in the process.
What fuzz said.

Thanks for reading my mind. Please stop now.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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