The "not all Muslims are terrorists" fallacy

[Lemonvariable72]

I know I will condemn white supremacists agian and agian, not like that 'moderate' above who is clearly an anti semitic piece of shit. And as for 75% percent of Christians comment, let's say that is true, how does that jusitfy even one act of extremism in islam?

Did you just type the phrase, "justify even one act of extremism"?

Um yes. Care to answer the question? Because what you were using in your last sentence is the tu qo que fallacy.

[Angrboda]

There's also the fallacy fallacy. This is where someone has learned the names of a load of logical fallacies, but doesn't understand them properly and raises them as incorrect objections.

Argument from fallacy is the formal fallacy of analyzing an argument and inferring that, since it contains a fallacy, its conclusion must be false. It is also called argument to logic (argumentum ad logicam), fallacy fallacy, fallacist's fallacy, and bad reasons fallacy.

Fallacious arguments can arrive at true conclusions, so this is an informal fallacy of relevance.

[Catholic_Lady]

There maybe a logical fallacy for this all ready, but here is my idea for this

This a logical fallacy commonly made when arguing against the actions of people that follow particular ideology where instead responding appropriately to the argument at hand, you make an erroneous assertion that the argument only applies to a small subset of people. For example

Me: islam is responsible for religious violence per capita then any other religion.
You: but not all Muslims are terrorists!.

I think the reason why people insist on emphasizing that "not all Muslims are terrorists" is to prevent spreading fear/hate of Muslim people in general. Yes, it is a fallacy, but I understand why people do it. Just look at what we did to the Japanese living in the US during WWII. We did that to them out of fear of Japanese people in general because of the war. We don't want to repeat the same mistake again by starting to get too paranoid about Islam and Muslim people living in the US.

[Regina]

It's a very real fear though. Honestly, who is to say there aren't hundreds, perhaps even thousands of ISIS members who are taking advantage of the European migrant crisis to sneak back into Europe? They've already caught some doing it.

"Not all Muslims!" is a silly derailment tactic. We have seen enough Muslim people being killed by other Muslims that we know it's "not all Muslims", there are far more Muslim victims of Islamism than there are non-Muslim victims. The problem is that hardly anyone in the West can see this, even the faux-liberal Islam-loving left, who defend the culture of Islam over real living Muslims who would benefit from properly enforced secularism (particularly females, LGBT and ex-Muslims).

It's not that "not all Muslims!" is wrong, it's in the context of how it's used. They never say this when a bigoted Muslim leader tries to speak for all Muslims, they only say it to non-Muslim westerners when they want to have a serious discussion about this religion. If you're serious about "not all Muslims!", I'm gonna have to ask you to also say that to Anjem Choudary, who thinks he represents "real Islam" and all Muslims.

[Napoléon]

That's horse shit. Every extremist group claims to be "the voice of the people".

So you, white guy, spend your time and energy publicly shouting down the white supremacist groups, who claim that they're just saying aloud "what all white people feel but are too afraid to voice in this PC society".

So we're equating religion with race now? What was that about horse shit?

If I subscribed to a religion that was the same as theirs, yes, I would shout them down and I'd see it as my responsibility to. My race isn't a subscription though, and white supremacists are more than a little different to Islamic extremists. People claiming to represent me based on nothing but my race isn't equivalent to people claiming to represent me based on my religious ideology. One of these things has significantly more to do with the extremism than the other. Someone claiming to represent me based on race alone would be flagrantly ridiculous. When people share the same religion though, one that you also claim is a "peaceful" religion, it's a lot less obvious that these people don't actually represent you, and you bet your bottom dollar you have more responsibility than I would for a white supremacist.

Pretty damn idiotic comparison.

The problem is, half the muslim population doesn't even want to condemn the extremists even when put on a pedestal and asked. Do you think the vast majority of white people would have a problem condemning white supremacists if put on such a pedestal? Are we going to pretend that a comparative amount of muslims would do the same for the likes of ISIS?

Again. Bullshit comparison. Try again.

But there is a significant fear and intimidation factor toward those who would speak out

In Islamic countries you have a point, but to my knowledge nobody here is talking about anyone in an Islamic country speaking up are they?

You are seriously bullshitting me if you think enough muslims in the UK speak out about the problems with extremism, when over a quarter of them go as far as to sympathise with the terrorists of Charlie Hebdo, which is just one example of this not being an issue even remotely comparable to the idiotic comparison you made above.

These people have a responsibility whether you like it or not. It's not like we're just referring to fringe extremists here who exist out in the middle of nowhere like a bunch of white supremacists in America. These are extremists who visit the same mosques, the same stores, in the same country, who learn from the same preachers as the 'ordinary' muslims, who for all intents and purposes infiltrate and influence the minds of ordinary muslims. So fuck off with this excuse making bullshit. It's exactly the problem and does nothing but enable these terrorist ideologies and 'extreme' views.

If more muslims in the western world spoke out, if more muslims actually condemned these extreme views, you might not get such cases like the Trojan horse scandal in Birmingham schools.

And if you think 75% of Christians (as much as I think their own views are stone-aged) are even remotely comparable to the kinds of mentalities prevalent in Islamic communities in the west, you're off your rocker.

[Napoléon]

who is to say there aren't hundreds, perhaps even thousands of ISIS members who are taking advantage of the European migrant crisis to sneak back into Europe? They've already caught some doing it.

Yup.

http://www.ibtimes.com/refugee-crisis-is...ow-2085787

[Catholic_Lady]

It's a very real fear though. Honestly, who is to say there aren't hundreds, perhaps even thousands of ISIS members who are taking advantage of the European migrant crisis to sneak back into Europe? They've already caught some doing it. 

Yaeux, I personally don't feel afraid every time I see a Muslim, and wouldn't care if I had one living next door. Perhaps some fear is valid to a certain extent, but not to the extent of ostracizing them, treating them differently when we encounter them, or gathering them up and putting them into concentration camps like we did with the Japanese, don't you think?

[Losty]

It's a very real fear though. Honestly, who is to say there aren't hundreds, perhaps even thousands of ISIS members who are taking advantage of the European migrant crisis to sneak back into Europe? They've already caught some doing it. 

Yaeux, I personally don't feel afraid every time I see a Muslim, and wouldn't care if I had one living next door. Perhaps some fear is valid to a certain extent, but not to the extent of ostracizing them, treating them differently when we encounter them, or gathering them up and putting them into concentration camps like we did with the Japanese, don't you think?

Depends on where you live. I don't have any fear of Muslims in the US. I dislike most Muslims though. The only difference between and extremist and a moderate is that one is willing to kill you and the other is not. They both have the same disgusting views. Neither has the right to call themselves peaceful considering they both think you deserve to be killed, one is just to chicken to actually kill you.

[Regina]

It's a very real fear though. Honestly, who is to say there aren't hundreds, perhaps even thousands of ISIS members who are taking advantage of the European migrant crisis to sneak back into Europe? They've already caught some doing it. 

treating them differently when we encounter them

The thing is, this is what the pro-Islamist ass-kissing left do as well. They just do it in the favour of the parasitical imams and the (relatively) privileged within the Muslim community (hetereosexual practicing Muslim men). When a Muslim man pours a kettle of boiling water over his gay son in Germany, he gets a slap on the wrist fine "because culture" where an ethnically German father would (quite rightly) get jail for assault, GBH and child abuse.

If you want to treat Muslims the same, you get rid of the Sharia courts and put them under the same law as everyone else, you get rid of all religious schools (not just Muslim schools, Christian ones too), and you stop defending misogyny and homophobia as peoples' culture when an honour killing happens. All those things are as intrisically racist as the far-right who ostracize and demonize Muslims, because they play into racist stereotypes and take "the angry Muslim" as the image of the authentic Muslim, who they have to defend as a minority. This is at the expense of the other Muslims (namely, women, among others) whose rights they violate.

And when these people get bold enough, yes that's scary to both Muslims and non-Muslims. Being scared of the very real possibility of 7/7 or Lee Rigby happening again is not a "phobia", fear is a damn natural and rational response.

[Catholic_Lady]

treating them differently when we encounter them

The thing is, this is what the pro-Islamist ass-kissing left do as well. They just do it in the favour of the parasitical imams and the (relatively) privileged within the Muslim community (hetereosexual practicing Muslim men). When a Muslim man pours a kettle of boiling water over his gay son in Germany, he gets a slap on the wrist fine "because culture" where an ethnically German father would (quite rightly) get jail for assault, GBH and child abuse.

If you want to treat Muslims the same, you get rid of the Sharia courts and put them under the same law as everyone else, you get rid of all religious schools (not just Muslim schools, Christian ones too), and you stop defending misogyny and homophobia as peoples' culture when an honour killing happens. All those things are as intrisically racist as the far-right who ostracize and demonize Muslims, because they play into racist stereotypes and take "the angry Muslim" as the image of the authentic Muslim, who they have to defend as a minority. This is at the expense of the other Muslims (namely, women, among others) whose rights they violate.

And when these people get bold enough, yes that's scary to both Muslims and non-Muslims. Being scared of the very real possibility of 7/7 or Lee Rigby happening again is not a "phobia", fear is a damn natural and rational response.

Yeaux, you didn't answer my question though.