Abortion is love

[Won2blv]

[hide]

Hey, God says it's OK to kill babies.  He does it to punish their parents.  So if God approves how can it be wrong?

Hosea 9:16 (CEV)"...Even if you had more children
and loved them dearly,
    I would slaughter them all."

Well I believe that if god does indeed exist and is a paragon of morality then he would be able to make the call when a killing is justified. But my point to Rob is that is reasoning and logic is false

[robvalue]

Is killing the baby in its best interest?

You haven't said how it is false. The fact that "the ends" are maximised by murder points to a corrupt system.

[Losty]

@CL- You're not understanding what I am saying. In the incidence where someone you love is trying to kill a stranger. If you defend that stranger at the cost of your loved one's life, you have valued the life of the stranger over your loved one. You wouldn't be wrong to do that, it makes sense to value the lives of innocent people over the lives of murderers or attemptive murderers. But I think you once said that it's not okay to end one life to save another one and now you're saying it is.

[Won2blv]

It would be murder because it was an unjustified taking of a beings life.

What business is it of yours if some woman you've never met has or does not have a kid?  Who died and made you the fucking king?

Hmmm, lets see. I never made the business of a woman that i have never met mine. I simply stated the position an anti-abortion person would have and used it to explain why rob is using poor logic. But as always, I love the over reaction min!

[Catholic_Lady]

I wonder why you haven't addressed this post from a few pages ago, C_L:

But I would have had the abortion anyway... I would have killed the unborn *fetus* anyway. I was just under four months along, and I already felt the overwhelming toll it was taking on my body. But that didn't even matter: I never wanted kids, even before the doctor told me they weren't feasible. I would have, sure, taken better precautions with birth control, but if I became pregnant healthfully, I probably still would have aborted. Deliberately.

Did I just get lucky? If so, how does that make every life "equal"? I mean, according to your theology, your god made me, right? All of me? Even the part of me that would have made the decision to have an abortion, healthy or not?

Oh, sorry.   

I'd say you were lucky in the sense that you did not have to go through the procedure that you intended to go through anyway. I don't see how this does not make both your lives equal, though, as one person's luck might mean someone else's misfortune. Yes, I believe God created you, but I also believe in free will. I don't think that just because God gave me free will, for example, that everything I do is/will be morally good.

[Whateverist]

What I meant by that is that it's easy for us to value some lives more than others... for example, we care more about the people we love than we do all other people. But that does not necessarily mean that the life of someone we don't love is worth less than that of those we do. 

The idea that some lives are worth less than others has led to some horrific things throughout history. And that's why I said we should strive to value all life equally. Even the people we don't love, and even the people we hate.

Whenever the preciousness of life comes up I always think about the non-human species. Our choices will determine whether there will be any useful habitat for any creature which doesn't itself serve us by way of its food value. It would be good if we took into consideration which ones we're willing to see go extinct so that we can squeeze in another billion people or two. Life is precious. But in a planet in danger of being overrun by human beings, human life is banal and even toxic to the web of life itself.

[Catholic_Lady]

@CL- You're not understanding what I am saying. In the incidence where someone you love is trying to kill a stranger. If you defend that stranger at the cost of your loved one's life, you have valued the life of the stranger over your loved one. You wouldn't be wrong to do that, it makes sense to value the lives of innocent people over the lives of murderers or attemptive murderers. But I think you once said that it's not okay to end one life to save another one and now you're saying it is.

I see it differently, Losty. I see self defense as justice, not as saying one life is more important than the other life. 

As for your last part, I said "an innocent life." I don't think it's right to kill one innocent person to save another innocent person. Let's say you're in the military and a group of terrorists captured you and your fellow soldier. As a way to torture you, they hold a gun up to your head and say, "kill your partner, otherwise we kill you." This stuff actually happens. Objectively speaking, I still think it would be wrong to kill your partner. I wouldn't cast any judgement on you because of the extremely difficult/impossible position you were in, though.

[Catholic_Lady]

What I meant by that is that it's easy for us to value some lives more than others... for example, we care more about the people we love than we do all other people. But that does not necessarily mean that the life of someone we don't love is worth less than that of those we do. 

The idea that some lives are worth less than others has led to some horrific things throughout history. And that's why I said we should strive to value all life equally. Even the people we don't love, and even the people we hate.

Whenever the preciousness of life comes up I always think about the non-human species.  Our choices will determine whether there will be any useful habitat for any creature which doesn't itself serve us by way of its food value.  It would be good if we took into consideration which ones we're willing to see go extinct so that we can squeeze in another billion people or two.  Life is precious.  But in a planet in danger of being overrun by human beings, human life is banal and even toxic to the web of life itself.

Yes, I definitely agree with taking care of our environment as also being a moral obligation.

[Longhorn]

http://youtu.be/FO66RqN0YOk

[rexbeccarox]

I wonder why you haven't addressed this post from a few pages ago, C_L:

Oh, sorry.   

I'd say you were lucky in the sense that you did not have to go through the procedure that you intended to go through anyway. I don't see how this does not make both your lives equal, though, as one person's luck might mean someone else's misfortune. Yes, I believe God created you, but I also believe in free will. I don't think that just because God gave me free will, for example, that everything I do is/will be morally good.

Are you kidding? I did have to go through the abortion. The *fetus* (not person; not baby) died in my womb, but I didn't miscarry so I still had to have the abortion. As someone who has had surgeries, tattoos, broken bones, aborting a four-month-old dead fetus was one of the most painful things I've ever gone through, and I'm not talking about emotional pain; I'm talking about physical agony. When I asked if I just "got lucky", I was being tongue-in-cheek.

But you didn't answer the question. If both lives were equal, and we both had free will, why did your god choose to let me get pregnant (even with no chance of carrying to term), hang on to the fetus for four months, let it die, and then have me go through the painful procedure of having an abortion? Where's the equality and free will there?