Saint Peter's Bones

[Wyrd of Gawd]

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It doesn't suggest he's reliable at all, nor does it suggest when the bible was written.  We don't know how long the custom persisted, and how widespread it was.  I do find it interesting however that you're willing to accept this as evidence for the bible being reliable, but still are ready to accept the Shroud of Turin as the burial cloth of Jesus.

Why is that interesting?

Does John or any of the other gospels specify exactly how many linen cloths were used?

But again, this thread is supposed to be about the bones of Peter which may have been found in the necropolis under St. Peter's Basilica.

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There's no doubt about it.

[Minimalist]

Wouldn't this be another example of the New Testament authors having accurate knowledge of first-century Jewish culture?

Again, why do you assume that there was any significant difference between 1st century and 2d century practices?  For that matter, 1st and 6th century practices.

Life must be so simple when all you have to do is make up shit, Randy.

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/burial357907.shtml

Private burials were common among Judean Jews during the Second Temple Era (STE). 1 A pre-condition for a private burial was land ownership. Thus, only the well-to-do could afford for private burials, while the others were buried in public cemeteries, in regular trench graves. Land ownership was just one facet of the financial problem: carving a proper space into a rock or building a Mausoleum, were expensive.

Your boy was supposed to be poor but, oh.  He had a sugar daddy conveniently in place. 

So far, it seems that we have discussed the rich burials exclusively. One might ask: what about the spiritual rights of the poor, the dwellers of the trench graves? What about their afterlife and the earthly burial practices connected thereto? The RL gives no answer, but we can suggest a simple one: the poor did not lose anything. Jewish burial custom assumed naturally that while the bodies in trench graves were decaying, their former owners, the poor souls, underwent the same process the rich souls did: trial and purification in heavenly court. The relatives would visit the trench grave of the deceased a year after the burial and celebrate his eternal freedom. The technical gap compared to the rich burials meant nothing regarding the spiritual rights.

All these were applied to every Jew in the STE, and actually ever since. Jews are buried, until today, according to burial practices and concepts created in the STE.

[Angrboda]

New test dates Shroud of Turin to era of Christ
Doug Stanglin, USA TODAY 4:25 p.m. EDT March 30, 2013
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world...y/2038295/

These tests were done using experimental methods that haven't been validated.  During the testing, there were arbitrary assumptions introduced.  If you want to talk flawed testing, there is an example.

However here Fanti has made a correction, trying to take into account the effects of the fire of 1532 in which the Shroud was involved, and moved the date from 752 BC to 300 BC. This is based on measurements made on a recent piece of fabric which has been subjected to heating. This correction is somewhat arbitrary. On the one hand it is not known at what temperature and for how long the cloth of the Shroud has been heated by the fire. On the other hand the effects on a new fabric manufactured using modern technology may be different from the effects on the Shroud, also taking into account that the damage triggered by the fire may have worsened over the centuries.

http://shroudstory.com/2013/04/04/a-crit...f-methods/

[abaris]

I'm probably a bad person because I always misread the thread title as Saint Peters boner.

[Minimalist]

It determined that the earlier results may have been skewed by contamination from fibers used to repair the cloth when it was damaged by fire in the Middle Ages, the British newspaper reported.

Calculations have been made that in order to introduce that much "contamination" into the relic would have required 40 pounds of carbon....which would have been extraordinary as the shroud itself weighs roughly 20 pounds.  Such an amount of "contamination" should have been easily visible even to blind catholic asswipes.

[Randy Carson]

I don't know enough about St. Peter's bones to opine.  But anyone who bothers to look at the proportions of the body depicted on the shroud of Turin knows it's a fake.  No real person has those proportions, but art made at the time it first surfaced did.  Surely if Jesus were monstrously out of proportion to the extent of being a freak of nature, someone would have mentioned it?  It's not even as if it's a genetic defect commonly found or recognized it's not.  No one has those proportions.  It's as if the shroud first came to light ten or fifteen years ago in Japan and had the huge eyes and bodily proportions of anime cartoons.

You have raised this objection on more than one occasion...what proportions do you find to be problematic, Jenny?

I have a 35" sleeve, and I can position my hands as shown on the shroud WITHOUT dislocating my shoulders as would have happened to Jesus during the hours he spent on the cross.

I hope you will take a few moments to read the following article which confirms what I posted to you previously.

New study shows Man of the Shroud had “dislocated” arms
Four university professors have published an article in “Injury” magazine revealing that the crucified man that was wrapped in the Turin Shroud suffered a dislocation of the humerus, the paralysis of one arm and a violent trauma to the neck and chest. There are also traces of a double wrist-nailing
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/wor...rio-33948/

"Only part of the study has been published so far [at the time the article was publised in 2014] in Injury , the prestigious International Journal of the Care of the Injured. The rest of the study is to follow shortly. The four experts involved in the research are: Matteo Bevilacqua of the Hospital-University of Padua, Italy; Giulio Fanti of the Department of Industrial Engineering, University of Padua, Italy; Michele D’Arienzo of the Orthopaedic Clinic at the University of Palermo, Italy and Raffaele De Caro of the Institute of Anatomy at the University of Padua, Italy."

[Jenny A]

I don't know enough about St. Peter's bones to opine.  But anyone who bothers to look at the proportions of the body depicted on the shroud of Turin knows it's a fake.  No real person has those proportions, but art made at the time it first surfaced did.  Surely if Jesus were monstrously out of proportion to the extent of being a freak of nature, someone would have mentioned it?  It's not even as if it's a genetic defect commonly found or recognized it's not.  No one has those proportions.  It's as if the shroud first came to light ten or fifteen years ago in Japan and had the huge eyes and bodily proportions of anime cartoons.

You have raised this objection on more than one occasion...what proportions do you find to be problematic, Jenny?

I have a 35" sleeve, and I can position my hands as shown on the shroud WITHOUT dislocating my shoulders as would have happened to Jesus during the hours he spent on the cross.

I hope you will take a few moments to read the following article which confirms what I posted to you previously.

New study shows Man of the Shroud had “dislocated” arms
Four university professors have published an article in “Injury” magazine revealing that the crucified man that was wrapped in the Turin Shroud suffered a dislocation of the humerus, the paralysis of one arm and a violent trauma to the neck and chest. There are also traces of a double wrist-nailing
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/wor...rio-33948/

"Only part of the study has been published so far [at the time the article was publised in 2014] in Injury , the prestigious International Journal of the Care of the Injured. The rest of the study is to follow shortly. The four experts involved in the research are: Matteo Bevilacqua  of the Hospital-University of Padua, Italy; Giulio Fanti of the Department of Industrial Engineering, University of Padua, Italy; Michele D’Arienzo of the Orthopaedic Clinic at the University of Palermo, Italy and Raffaele De Caro of the Institute of Anatomy at the University of Padua, Italy."

I'm talking faces not arms Randy.  Open your eyes and look:

Here is the face depicted in the shroud:




Here is a sampling of missdrawn faces in which, like the image on the shroud, the eyes are not just a little, but way, way too high:



Here is a drawing from the middle ages with typical high eye placement:



The is what faces really look like:




So:  1) the shroud's head in anatomically impossible; 2) it is impossible in the same way that art during the period the shroud was first "discovered" depicted impossible faces.  Put two and two together. It's a painting or a relief of a sculpture. No person could have a brain that size and live. If such a person were preaching, people would be repulsed. At a minimum they'd notice.

And no the problem is not that we can't see the top of the image's head as the image already has a very long face--almost impossible long. What we'd get is this:




Now, try this on your own face, your wife's face or anyone elses face. Measure from the top of the head to the middle of the eyes. Now from the middle of the eyes to the chin. You will find that ALL people have eyes around 40 to 45% from the top of the head. No one has higher eyes. But the portraits painted and sculpted when the shroud surfaced almost all do. And so does the shroud. You can test this real quick just by roughing it out with your fingers.

[Minimalist]

How do your catholic "experts" explain the fact that this "man" had a head that was 1/2 inch wide?

http://skepdic.com/shroud.html

Actually, it has two images, one frontal and one rear, with the heads meeting in the middle. It has been noted that if the shroud were really wrapped over a body there should be a space where the two heads meet.

[abaris]

I see, it's shroud time again. So, Saint Peter's bones are no longer on the table?

[Minimalist]

Same shit - different cult object.

Before someone can claim that peter has bones they would need to demonstrate that "peter" was real and not just a literary invention to keep idiot catholics in line....like all the rest of it.