A doctrine of alienation

[drfuzzy]

I'm so sorry, Luckie.  I understand.  My parents disowned me and my brother for similar reasons.  Fundamentalist Xtians are hopelessly brainwashed, ensnared in a fantasy that simultaneously makes them think that they are superior to everybody, but makes them fear that anyone who isn't in their little itty bitty circle will cause them to doubt and then their all-loving wonderful gawd will fry them for eternity for it.  My Mother actually believed that if she allowed her children into her house, she would go to hell.  (And, oh, btw, my brother and I are kind, law-abiding, open minded, hard-working people who make time to volunteer in charity organizations -- something our xtian parents never bothered to do.)

[robvalue]

I'm really sad to hear this, sorry religion is driving a wedge between you These cults teach that those on the inside are superior and those on the outside deserve punishment just for not conforming. That's bad enough, before you get into the specifics.

I've heard this a lot, the bible certainly creates more atheists than any other book! Christianity survives because most people don't properly read it.

[KevinM1]

So sorry that this is happening with your brother, and, well, other family members too, Luckie.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Christians, if you are here reading this you are already lost among the flocks. Having an open mind, being who you are, following what you think is right-- it's not the religion you profess to follow. Pretty much, yer doin it wrong. The truth of the bible is this:

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"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."  (Luke 16:17 NAB)

Luke 12:51-52
51 "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division." 52 "For from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three"

Matthew 10:34-35
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." 35 "For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

I have a lot to say on this particular subject in general, but most recently I was invited to my brothers new place. He "quit drinking" and has finished a program for homeless via Salvation Army where they took 80% of his paycheck (of jobs they found for him) and now he has a place of his own. I told him how proud I was, he's 25 it's his first place. I asked if we could spend as much time before I moved out of state as possible with him to which at first he said he would love to see me! Then he replied:

Just so you know, I mean I know your my blood sister, and you have a special place in my soul, but that being said, I am a devout followet of Christ, and I am doing everything in my power to keep a reverent fear of God's wrath and absence. So, I've got nothing but things about what God has done in my life to share. If my faith makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to come. I am riding God's canoe through an ocean I had no idea I was even floating on. I will never hate you. But I need to be wary of people who do not believe in God and the salvation of ours souls through Christ; even if it is my own family.
5 hours ago

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I feel as if he's just built a giant wall and left me out in the dust. This kid I grew up with toe to toe shoulder to shoulder--is every year pushing himself away from me, and my mom (whose LGBT). He's said some of the most disgusting things he could say to us like how I'll end up a puke slathered corpse one day on the side of the highway (when I told him I no longer believed in the abrahamic god). He's disowned and repaired and disowned my mom so many times it's mean, and he hangs out with my cousin who also professes Christ is King! In the middle of stores and stuff like a weirdo. But that cousin? Has secret threesome sex with his wife and other men. Some good Christian man he is. He's an ugly person inside, I found out the hard way and others have as well. One day so too will my brother. But until then, I'm the one he has alienated. Not based upon who I am as a person, how much love I have to give him, how tolerant I am of his 'faith', or what have you--I'm deemed the leper solely because he fears me based on the words in a book he read. This kid, whom I taught to read, read something and now thinks I'm something to be avoided.

That, my friends, is the inevitability of Christiantity. Separation, alienation, and lifelong prejudice.

It seems as if your brother has taken the passage from 2 John 1:9-11 as one of his guiding principles.  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=CEV.  

You can continue to be unhappy with the situation.  That will stress you out and piss you off.

You can accept the fact that he's a fully grown man who can make his own decisions and respect him for doing so although those decisions displease you.  Right now you don't see him as your equal based upon your comments.  You want to be his boss and still see him as a child.

You can acknowledge the reality that your relationship has changed and move on.  At some point you may reconcile.

You can hold a funeral for your relationship and bury it.   Simply write the whole thing off as being dead.  One day it might get resurrected or it may stay dead until you die.  But it may help you to let it all go so that you can concentrate on your other relationships.  After all, it's your own attitude that determines if you are happy or sad.  You can't change his so change yours.  Your current attitude about your brother is disrupting your other relationships and placing them in jeopardy.

[Drich]

Christians, if you are here reading this you are already lost among the flocks. Having an open mind, being who you are, following what you think is right-- it's not the religion you profess to follow. Pretty much, yer doin it wrong. The truth of the bible is this:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.  I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.  Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."  (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."  (Luke 16:17 NAB)

Luke 12:51-52
51 "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division." 52 "For from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three"

Matthew 10:34-35
34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." 35 "For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

I have a lot to say on this particular subject in general, but most recently I was invited to my brothers new place. He "quit drinking" and has finished a program for homeless via Salvation Army where they took 80% of his paycheck (of jobs they found for him) and now he has a place of his own. I told him how proud I was, he's 25 it's his first place. I asked if we could spend as much time before I moved out of state as possible with him to which at first he said he would love to see me! Then he replied:

Just so you know, I mean I know your my blood sister, and you have a special place in my soul, but that being said, I am a devout followet of Christ, and I am doing everything in my power to keep a reverent fear of God's wrath and absence. So, I've got nothing but things about what God has done in my life to share. If my faith makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to come. I am riding God's canoe through an ocean I had no idea I was even floating on. I will never hate you. But I need to be wary of people who do not believe in God and the salvation of ours souls through Christ; even if it is my own family.
5 hours ago

I feel as if he's just built a giant wall and left me out in the dust. This kid I grew up with toe to toe shoulder to shoulder--is every year pushing himself away from me, and my mom (whose LGBT). He's said some of the most disgusting things he could say to us like how I'll end up a puke slathered corpse one day on the side of the highway (when I told him I no longer believed in the abrahamic god). He's disowned and repaired and disowned my mom so many times it's mean, and he hangs out with my cousin who also professes Christ is King! In the middle of stores and stuff like a weirdo. But that cousin? Has secret threesome sex with his wife and other men. Some good Christian man he is. He's an ugly person inside, I found out the hard way and others have as well. One day so too will my brother. But until then, I'm the one he has alienated. Not based upon who I am as a person, how much love I have to give him, how tolerant I am of his 'faith', or what have you--I'm deemed the leper solely because he fears me based on the words in a book he read. This kid, whom I taught to read, read something and now thinks I'm something to be avoided.

That, my friends, is the inevitability of Christiantity. Separation, alienation, and lifelong prejudice.

Division does not have to mean hate. it simply means separation. For some, they must separate themselves from all contact from what they deem sinful influences. For others not so much. we are all different members of the same body,meaning we all have different functions. For your brother being new to all of this is 'young in the faith' Paul tells us those young in the faith need the milk of the word. Meaning we need out rules and boundries. He says this right after giving the example of those young in the faith who still think it is a sin to eat meat offered to idols. For Him who is mature in the faith says there is nothing wrong with eating the meat offered to idles because the idols represent nothing. But, for those who need 'spiritual milk' eating meat offered to idols is still a sin. for them Paul says he wouldn't eat any meat ever again, just so one would not stumble and compromise what they believe.

The bottom line being, Christianity is not about bondage to rules, it is freedom from them. A place like the salvation Army has to provide a 'milk' message because of the nature of the people they minister to. If/when your brother matures in his faith things will change.

(And no freedom from the law does not abolish the law, the law itself allows freedom from its rules through sacrifice.)

[Mystical]

Thank you all for your replies. It occurred to me that yes he probably is reliant on what he was taught via the organization that has helped him make positive changes in his life. I have no malice towards it now, I am at peace. If he needs a crutch to get his wounded body moving again then that's what crutches are for! One day he might drop the crutch and walk on his own. Till then I don't wish to intervene in his recovery. I don't hold out much hope for him though, that's why I said I mourned him long ago. My father too; I am not even sure whether I should put out a missing persons report on him. He has chosen to die and go to heaven rather than live here. I can't say I haven't had similar sentiments when I was a believer and at the darkest of hours.. But now I don't believe in an after life. (I merely hope) and that is what keeps me going forward, taking poison pills and Iv meds to keep my body from all out shutting itself down . We all find our own ways to keep going. I'm still proud of him for finally doing that! All on his own . I've decided to visit him with my mom this weekend, and bring him that house warming gift after all. Hopefully I don't endanger his recovery by being there, but I don't think love can hurt and that's all I want to do is love him. I'm glad I got some theists commenting instead of ignoring something like this. Thank you.

[Drich]

Thank you all for your replies. It occurred to me that yes he probably is reliant on what he was taught via the organization that has helped him make positive changes in his life. I have no malice towards it now, I am at peace. If he needs a crutch to get his wounded body moving again then that's what crutches are for! One day he might drop the crutch and walk on his own. Till then I don't wish to intervene in his recovery. I don't hold out much hope for him though, that's why I said I mourned him long ago. My father too; I am not even sure whether I should put out a missing persons report on him. He has chosen to die and go to heaven rather than live here. I can't say I haven't had similar sentiments when I was a believer and at the darkest of hours.. But now I don't believe in an after life. (I merely hope) and that is what keeps me going forward, taking poison pills and Iv meds to keep my body from all out shutting itself down . We all find our own ways to keep going. I'm still proud of him for finally doing that! All on his own . I've decided to visit him with my mom this weekend, and bring him that house warming gift after all. Hopefully I don't endanger his recovery by being there, but I don't think love can hurt and that's all I want to do is love him. I'm glad I got some theists commenting instead of ignoring something like this. Thank you.

You being there making him deal with his feelings for you and feeling for God will make him Seek a way to reconcile both. Whether he does this scripturally or whether he does this by turning from God is on him in the end (I can truly help if you want to offer a scriptural balance to him) I had to reconcile my own father after an 8 year silence between us. (His was/is a lot deeper than what you described.) Yet their is still freedom in our faith to reconcile if it is in our hearts to do so.

[The Grand Nudger]

Seems your brother has traded one vice for another.  Sucks, but that's how the SA makes their nut.  Who dropped him off with those ghouls in the first place, or did he just float down the drain into their clutches?

[Neo-Scholastic]

I believe it was John Ruskin who responded to a questioner about what it means to be a Christian by quoting a simple hymn all children know: “Jesus loves me this I know / for the Bible tells me so / Little ones to Him belong / They are weak but He is strong” $.02, he loves you, but he also feels weak and vulnerable.

I think every honest and truly repentant Christian feels that way. We recognize our human frailty and rely on Jesus to give us strength. In His Word He teaches us not just resist temptation, but to avoid it as best we can, and to run from it when it approaches. As a red-blooded man, I cannot help but to know where every titty bar and dirty bookstore is located. When I travel I plan my routes to avoid these places. It’s not that I feel particularly tempted but I know better than to put myself in a position where I might be.

For the same reason, I try not to watch violent movies about hit men and gangsters. I have no intention to commit crimes, but I do fear that repeated exposure to them could have a corrupting effect and make me more callous and jaded.

Please don’t take this the wrong way or as an accusation of any kind. I’m sure you have nothing but loving to your brother. At the same time, you may want to ask yourself, what is it that I do or say that makes him feel threatened and what can I do to reassure him that I am not a threat?

[The Grand Nudger]

You know where they're -all- at?  You'd make an awesome wingman. I'm not even sure the town I live in -has- a titty bar..maybe I should have you come by and sniff the air for me? How does something like revelations square away with your attempts to avoid violent entertainment for fear of becoming callous or jaded, btw? Do you not worry that reading the bible will have the same effect - when bears eat children or cities are annihilated, or genocide is called from on high? If not...why not?

I mean, I get the idea that the overall narrative (from a christian perspective) is -supposed- to be about redemption, some even consider it a love story...but those movies about hitman are often about redemption as well..they have romantic subplots (Grosse Pointe Blank comes to mind immediately). What's the difference between the narratives (and characters) you avoid, and the narratives (and characters) you enshrine?

IOW.....whats the difference between King "String of Foreskins" David from the OT, and Sgt Andrew "String of Ears" Scott from Universal Soldier?