Personal relationships with deities

[drfuzzy]

Yeah, but not everybody has been saved from religion... and those who haven't are really making a mess of things, don't you think?

I don't know if this God is going to stop by and give us an introduction...

Aw damn.  Now THAT would have been cool.

[Edwardo Piet]

if they cant meet it then why should they bother with it at all ? thats illogical ...
so theyre confusing the inability to meet the burden of proof with the idea they should continue to bother trying to meet it ? thats an interesting theory.

No it's completely logical if you actually value the burden of proof like any rational person should. I am not saying to continue bothering to try meeting it when they can't, I am saying when they can't then that means their idea is not worth bothering with. That's the whole POINT with the burden of proof - it filters out all the bullshit claims that aren't worth bothering with. It's not "an interesting theory" it's perfectly rational parsimoniousness, it's Occam's Razor - the principle of parsimony:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

You are showing complete confirmation bias... if a rational method fails to confirm what you already believe then rather than throw out the belief you throw out the rational method. That's massively irrational.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[jenny1972]

im not stopping anyone from going to another thread that doesnt discuss personal relationships with deities . if your irritated with this topic and people describing their personal relationship with deities which is what the thread is about you can go to a different thread that you dont think is annoying right?

Are you forgetting the original post?   robvalue set these very clear parameters:  

"To me, this is a sensible, loose definition of a personal relationship:

An independent observer can verify that

1) Both parties in the relationship exist, and are easily distinguishable from being imaginary.
2) Both parties have an independent intelligence.
3) Both parties directly communicate with the other party in a meaningful, observable way."

The experiences you describe do not fulfill these requirements.  You are unable to demonstrate that the OP's claims are inaccurate. You are on an Atheist website.   This does not mean that the "Christian" section is for people to gush on about their gawd.  You are on an Atheist website.  You say you don't want to convince anyone, but the fact that you have wasted dozens and dozens of posts on this topic shows otherwise - - you DESPERATELY want agreement.  You're not going to get it.   Assertions of your personal experience are boring and beyond after the second or third description.   You've already agreed that you're not going to be able to prove your claims.  You've made your point.  So why don't you drop this topic and go start a more interesting thread, something where you won't be labeled as just another insane Theist who thinks she's talking to gawd?  Because if you keep trying to claim something you can't prove, the ridicule is just going to keep piling up.

he was giving his definition of a personal relationship not something you had to prove or a requirement you had to meet in order  to post a comment here - the topic is simply a personal relationship to a deity not 'prove your personal relationship to a deity to convince athiests' , im interested in this topic which is why im here . why are you here if your bored and irritated are you into self torture or something ?

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, I'm concerned that we're talking about a non-thing, you see?  At the very least we're talking about an entirely different sort of thing than any relationship I have.  I have a big family, lots of kids.  I have lots of relationships.  You could search the member photos thread and you'd see 4 generations of my family and 4 of my children.  Read a few of my drunken, sappy posts and you'll hear stories about another child, and various lost relatives, friends...etc.  You could take a look..hell....it's within the realm of possibility that you and I could sit down to dinner and you'd meet some of these people.  You can certainly attest to their existence independent of my help, as well...as all of our births are a matter of public record.  You can also find ample attestation as to the relationships themselves.  Their character, their tone, the complex interconnected weave of a large families life.  I engage with these people face to face.  We agree and disagree, we agree to disagree...and we talk things out.  Our opinions amongst each other are valued, as are our individual senses of moral value.  We love, we are loved, and show love.  We do all of this in palpable ways that wouldn't make anyone wonder whether or not we are talking to a lamp, or a wall....  

The relationship you're describing doesn't sound like that, it doesn't sound like a relationship at all. The question is this, how should I understand these statements? How could I? Are your relationships so different from mine as to include this business with god -as- a relationship? It's just that, to me.....one of these things is not remotely like the other, so if even one of them is a relationship we're going to need a different word for the other..

[jenny1972]

The relationship you're describing doesn't sound like that, it doesn't sound like a relationship at all.  The question is this, how should I understand these statements?  How could I?  Are your relationships so different from mine as to include this business with god -as- a relationship?  It's just that, to me.....one of these things is not remotely like the other, so if even one of them is a relationship we're going to need a different word for the other..

yes its definately different than a relationship you would have with another human but do you think a relationship to a diety would be just like a relationship to another human ? God is not human and is not in a visible form so why would it be ? it would have to be completely different , another person could not visually witness it .

[The Grand Nudger]

yes its definately different than a relationship you would have with another human but do you think a relationship to a diety would be just like a relationship to another human ? God is not human and is not in a visible form so why would it be ? it would have to be completely different , another person could not visually witness it .

I assume that a relationship.....would be a relationship.   It's not that the relationship you describe doesn't sound like a relationship with a human being....it doesn't sound like a relationship at all. If god isn't visible than no one can visually witness it. Not you, not anyone. That's what it means to be invisible......

[drfuzzy]

-- What Rhythm said.

jenny said: "he was giving his definition of a personal relationship not something you had to prove or a requirement you had to meet in order  to post a comment here - the topic is simply a personal relationship to a deity not 'prove your personal relationship to a deity to convince athiests' , im interested in this topic which is why im here . why are you here if your bored and irritated are you into self torture or something ?"

And the original post gave quite clear parameters for a "personal relationship".   If your relationship doesn't fit into those parameters, you ain't got one.   

And yes, it's an atheist forum.  If you want to discuss this topic, go find a gawd forum where lots of people share your delusion.  There are hundreds of them out there.  

As for me, if someone comes into a place where atheists SHOULD feel safe from preaching and various types of WOO, then yep, after you have admitted, multiple times, that there is no way to prove your assertions, (yet still keep yammering about your delusion) you have painted a great big target on your forehead.   At some point, you have to remember that this is OUR HOUSE.  Not your personal pulpit.  Not your (desperately needed gawd-worshiping) psychiatrist.  If someone comes into your house and pours shit all over the floor, you have to get out the mop.

[jenny1972]

yes its definately different than a relationship you would have with another human but do you think a relationship to a diety would be just like a relationship to another human ? God is not human and is not in a visible form so why would it be ? it would have to be completely different , another person could not visually witness it .

I assume that a relationship.....would be a relationship.   It's not that the relationship you describe doesn't sound like a relationship with a human being....it doesn't sound like a relationship at all.  If god isn't visible than no one can visually witness it.  Not you, not anyone.  That's what it means to be invisible......

yes but just because you cannot see something doesnt mean that it doesnt exist . there are invisible gasses swirling around us molecules we cant see yet they exist , why couldnt other things not yet discovered also exist ?

my relationship with God meets all the requirements of the OP other than being observable by others that can percieve it with their eyes.

---

-- What Rhythm said.

jenny said: "he was giving his definition of a personal relationship not something you had to prove or a requirement you had to meet in order  to post a comment here - the topic is simply a personal relationship to a deity not 'prove your personal relationship to a deity to convince athiests' , im interested in this topic which is why im here . why are you here if your bored and irritated are you into self torture or something ?"

And the original post gave quite clear parameters for a "personal relationship".   If your relationship doesn't fit into those parameters, you ain't got one.   

And yes, it's an atheist forum.  If you want to discuss this topic, go find a gawd forum where lots of people share your delusion.  There are hundreds of them out there.  

As for me, if someone comes into a place where atheists SHOULD feel safe from preaching and various types of WOO, then yep, after you have admitted, multiple times, that there is no way to prove your assertions, (yet still keep yammering about your delusion) you have painted a great big target on your forehead.   At some point, you have to remember that this is OUR HOUSE.  Not your personal pulpit.  Not your (desperately needed gawd-worshiping) psychiatrist.  If someone comes into your house and pours shit all over the floor, you have to get out the mop.

i didnt see any rules stating that the only people who could comment in this thread had to be athiests and discuss from an athiests perspective . where did it say that ? all my comments after the first 2 have been responding to people . i have a target on my forehead because im discussing a personal relationship with a diety in the thread made specifically for that discussion and you disagree with me ? wow ok

[The Grand Nudger]

I assume that a relationship.....would be a relationship.   It's not that the relationship you describe doesn't sound like a relationship with a human being....it doesn't sound like a relationship at all.  If god isn't visible than no one can visually witness it.  Not you, not anyone.  That's what it means to be invisible......

yes but just because you cannot see something doesnt mean that it doesnt exist .

Of course, but who cares...since no one claimed that in the first place?

there are invisible gasses swirling around us molecules we cant see yet they exist , why couldnt other things not yet discovered also exist ?

...and?

my relationship with God meets all the requirements of the OP other than being observable by others that can percieve it with their eyes.

Well, that;s nice, I guess...but you're talking to me, aren't you.  You're responding to my question....(or not)...aren't you?  I described my relationships.  If your relationship with god isn't like any of that, then I'm at a loss.  Are any of the other relationships you have like the one with god, or are they..as I suspect, entirely like my own?  I'm gonna level with you here, far in advance....I don't actually believe you.  I don't even believe that you're hopelessly mistaken about an experience you had.  I think that you're refusing to leave the hill.  It's a fairly recent and exceedingly common christian tagline that stuck with you, for whatever reason.  That's what it is, it's not a relationship. If we cared to,we could source the publishing houses and authors where that little meme started.....not that either of us will care to, ofc.

[drfuzzy]

I assume that a relationship.....would be a relationship.   It's not that the relationship you describe doesn't sound like a relationship with a human being....it doesn't sound like a relationship at all.  If god isn't visible than no one can visually witness it.  Not you, not anyone.  That's what it means to be invisible......

yes but just because you cannot see something doesnt mean that it doesnt exist . there are invisible gasses swirling around us molecules we cant see yet they exist , why couldnt other things not yet discovered also exist ?

my relationship with God meets all the requirements of the OP other than being observable by others that can percieve it with their eyes.

---

-- What Rhythm said.

jenny said: "he was giving his definition of a personal relationship not something you had to prove or a requirement you had to meet in order  to post a comment here - the topic is simply a personal relationship to a deity not 'prove your personal relationship to a deity to convince athiests' , im interested in this topic which is why im here . why are you here if your bored and irritated are you into self torture or something ?"

And the original post gave quite clear parameters for a "personal relationship".   If your relationship doesn't fit into those parameters, you ain't got one.   

And yes, it's an atheist forum.  If you want to discuss this topic, go find a gawd forum where lots of people share your delusion.  There are hundreds of them out there.  

As for me, if someone comes into a place where atheists SHOULD feel safe from preaching and various types of WOO, then yep, after you have admitted, multiple times, that there is no way to prove your assertions, (yet still keep yammering about your delusion) you have painted a great big target on your forehead.   At some point, you have to remember that this is OUR HOUSE.  Not your personal pulpit.  Not your (desperately needed gawd-worshiping) psychiatrist.  If someone comes into your house and pours shit all over the floor, you have to get out the mop.

i didnt see any rules stating that the only people who could comment in this thread had to be athiests and discuss from an athiests perspective . where did it say that ? all my comments after the first 2 have been responding to people . i have a target on my forehead because im discussing a personal relationship with a diety in the thread made specifically for that discussion and you disagree with me ? wow ok

Anyone who is trying to discuss their "personal experiences with god" on an atheist website is either trying to preach or is simply insane.  If you want to connect with someone who understands, you won't find it here.  If you want to convince us that your experience was not all happening in your head, without scientific proof (which you knew was impossible before you signed up) that's not going to happen.  So you have no business here.  You're RESPONDING to people because we're all saying "prove it", and you say "I can't but it's real anyway, so there".   The discussion should be over at that point.  Say "I can't prove it" and move on.