Nothing says that the bible cannot be instructive on multiple levels. History is full of object lessons and the same failures are repeated throughout history.
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Help Me Understand, part duex
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RE: Help Me Understand, part duex
September 21, 2015 at 6:11 pm
(This post was last modified: September 21, 2015 at 6:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
God, apparently...repeatedly fails to successfully instruct. Some bible...some god.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
 (September 18, 2015 at 8:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Prompted by the thread started by Shuffle (Help Me Understand), this is for the Christians here that do accept evolution. Which is good, since it's been observed many times, in the lab and the field. Evolution has never been observed anywhere at anytime, period. Besides how does man's manipulation of anything in a lab evolution. GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
 (September 22, 2015 at 6:00 pm)Godschild Wrote:(September 18, 2015 at 8:00 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Prompted by the thread started by Shuffle (Help Me Understand), this is for the Christians here that do accept evolution. Which is good, since it's been observed many times, in the lab and the field. You are painfully wrong.
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
 RE: Help Me Understand, part duex
September 22, 2015 at 7:46 pm
(This post was last modified: September 22, 2015 at 8:04 pm by TheRocketSurgeon.)
Why do you keep saying this?
Do you not know how genetics works? Seriously. Look it up. When you can explain to me how endogenous retroviruses are fixed into germ lines, and what that means, then you can tell me why it's not (by itself!) absolute proof of evolution. After that we can get to the dozens of other independent lines of proof of evolution. Pro Tip: Plugging your ears and covering your eyes and shouting "la la la la la!" is not the same thing as disproving evolution. (September 22, 2015 at 6:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: Evolution has never been observed anywhere at anytime, period. Besides how does man's manipulation of anything in a lab evolution. I just wanted to re-post this "for the record", since it's the clearest possible proof I could offer that you have no idea what evolution is, what it does, or what the evidence to verify it is, even in the slightest fraction. I mean, damn, GC. Trying reading a book!
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love. (September 22, 2015 at 7:46 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Why do you keep saying this? I understand you want to call adaptable change within a species, evolution, it's only adaptation. You have and never will see one species change into another. Your right I'm not a scientist, why I surrounded myself with them to learn. I do read books in areas that interest me, I've enjoyed five Charles Dickens novels this year and probably will read another by the end of the year. Until you observe one species change to another you will have never seen evolution. GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(September 22, 2015 at 10:27 pm)Godschild Wrote: I understand you want to call adaptable change within a species, evolution, it's only adaptation. You have and never will see one species change into another. Your right I'm not a scientist, why I surrounded myself with them to learn. I do read books in areas that interest me, I've enjoyed five Charles Dickens novels this year and probably will read another by the end of the year. Until you observe one species change to another you will have never seen evolution. That's how I know you don't understand what evolution is. If I did see one species change into another, it would defy everything we know about genetic inheritance. You don't even know enough about it to ask the right questions, man! (P.S. - Dickens is awesome.)
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love. 
GC won't be convinced until someone shows him a crocoduck.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Addendum to Add: I wasn't being a jerk, by saying Christian evolutionary biologists. I'm not just trying to get a rise out of you. Literally half of the evolutionary biologists on the planet are Christians, more (slightly) than any other group, and only slightly less than the next major group (us). And my Beloved is one of them. As was my boss, three of my nine coworkers (plus a Muslim and a Hindu). And yet the concencus about evolution, how it works, and that it happened, are effectively universal, whether we're devout or not.
The only people who profess to have a problem with it are those who think it's anti-God. But it's not! It just doesn't care about that part of the question. That's why I recommend The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Reasons for Belief by Dr. Francis S. Collins. Not only is he one of the top ten geneticists on earth and has been a science adviser to the last two Presidents, he is also an evangelical Christain. Yet he explains better than I could, here, why evolution really happened. We really are cousins of the chimps, and that's okay. He calls DNA the "language of God" because we can, through understanding it, read the "fingerprints of the Creator". He also says that if we find something in nature, we shouldn't reject it because of preformed ideas about God. If God is the Creator, then what we find in nature is the work of the Creator, no matter what our human presuppositions were! Every scientific discovery he makes, he wrote, makes him feel as if he has seen a brief glimpse of the face of God. I've heard similar sentiments from coworkers and my Beloved on the subject. Please take a while to carefully consider why you consider evolution such a threat to your worldview that you'd rather attack me as "proud" for saying I used to be a scientist.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love. 
All I know is you can breed dogs for years without a bitch giving birth to a cat.
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