Proving the Bible is false in few words.

[fr0d0]

None of which point to God lying Rev. It's basically illogical.

[Eilonnwy]

So just because you say so, I'm wrong. Nice rebuttal.

Your logic is absurd Eilonnwy. think about it for one second, and consider what I've said.

You lying to yourself isn't intelligent atheism... it's hiding your head in the sand.

The whole point of the story of Adam & Eve is the rebellion from God. The "Separation". That separation = spiritual death. It doesn't mean "die" as in cease to live - or there wouldn't be humanity you literalist fool! Adam and Eve were rejected from the Garden Of Eden - spiritual connection with God - and took up a life of "knowledge of good and evil". They were ashamed of themselves "knowing" their weaknesses, instead of being fulfilled as they once were. This is not literal! This is allegorical for the reality of the human condition.

Adam and Eve were told they would die if they ate the fruit, they ate it and didn't die. Therefore God lied. Your allegorical interpretation still doesn't explain away the fact that God said they would die. Of course I think you're interpretation is crap, but that does nothing to refute the point I am making.

This is really simple, Fr0d0. I'm sorry it's so hard for you to understand.

[Rwandrall]

Poor me, my thread got hijacked in favor of an extension of the "Proof God exists" thread

[Minimalist]

although with your method it seems it all ends with "walk away",

Every conversation with one of these Holy Shitwits ends that way.

This method merely cuts to the chase.



Trying to drag it back on point for you, Rwandrall.

[SleepingDemon]

To be fair, Adam and Eve did eventually die. I believe the point of the allegory is that in Eden they were to live forever, but once they were cast out, they were mortal. They were pure, and close to god, but upon eating the fruit, banished from the holy garden and enslaved to man's short hourglass.

In any event, my argument against the bible tends to go like this, i'll bypass the Q & A session because their answers are never relevant in this conversation.

The christian bible was a series of documents put together by the Romans to create a single unifying creed if you will in an effort to bring the various christian sects together between 300-400 AD. There were many existing gospels at the time, almost certainly more than what we have found at this point, but only a select few were chosen. They left out the Gnostic gospels, like the gospel of St. Thomas, and it is believed that they were left out because such documents clearly go against the basic doctrine of the church.

So under this verifiable fact, the church, with the roman empire behind them, compiled a series of documents that all collaborated each other to some extent, and dismissed those that didn't into a "book". The roman empire put a lot of effort into eradicating opposing doctrines, and the roman catholic church spent the next 1200 years or so suppressing the opposition, theists and atheists alike. King James took it upon himself to make these holy documents available to everyone, as up until then it was primarily a congregation listening to a preist and accepting it as the word of god. Since that time, the christian bible has seen numerous revisions and permutations. With each revision the bible has changed dramatically in some areas. It had to keep up with the evolution of the language it was being printed in.

The American English Language is a bastard language, so if you were to attempt a translation from the original scrolls, greek, aramaic, and hebrew to american english you would find that our language is so complex that most of it wouldn't directly translate. So you take the closest match, and as language evolves, the closest match again, and again, until all that remains is a diluted recollection of an old document.

So in a nutshell, the christian bible was propoganda CONSTRUCTED by a group of politicians whose only goal was to unite both an empire and a religion. They cherry picked everything that went into it, and suppressed or destroyed everything that opposed it. It has been printed and reprinted thousands of times over the last 1700 years, rendering it a diluted trinket of an archaic empire. Your bible is false because it was created to perfectly fit a predetermined ideology, then mutilated and diluted by those in power to keep it relevant.

[Xyster]

As I have said in the past.. The bible was written by man for man to control man. All through the bible god is portrayed having LOW intelligence. Almost everytime god is faced with a problem his solution is to kill untill it gets fixxed. A higher intelligence could find nonviolent solutions but sence the book was written in a time where everyting was solved with violence or the threat of violence and or death, The writers of the books that became the bible would know no better even though they may have been of slightly higher intellegence of the day, Today morals have changed and standards have changed. Its not becouse slavery, human sacrifice, genocide and hate mongering tward those who believe/live differnt than you has become immoral.. It's ALWAYS been immoral. Its just that WE became more intellegent and come to understand things differntly..If a god would have written the bible (god being of high intellegence) none of that crap would have made it in there.

This forces most believers of today to go with the"your taking it out of context" or "It's not literal" but when it was written IT WAS LITERAL.. The only way people can go on believing that crap is to make excuses for it. Of course you have Idiots like pastor phelps that preach hate directly from the bible, well at least he is true to his religion..

But as far as the bible, first you must demonstrate there is a god b4 you can put forward a moraly outdated book as evedence that he suposidly wrote...You cant use the bible / koran whatever as proof of god untill god is first proved..

[fr0d0]

Adam and Eve were told they would die if they ate the fruit, they ate it and didn't die. Therefore God lied. Your allegorical interpretation still doesn't explain away the fact that God said they would die. Of course I think you're interpretation is crap, but that does nothing to refute the point I am making.

This is really simple, Fr0d0. I'm sorry it's so hard for you to understand.

It's not an interpretation, it's a logical conclusion. You want to take one little sentence out of context and say "look - God said 'die' and they didn't literally 'die'." ...when the meaning of the story is very clear.

The only other logical conclusion is as Sleeping Demon says, God introduced dying at that point. Before that point there was no physical death. The spiritual death occurring at the point they chose to hide their sin rather than openly acknowledging it (spiritual health).

Whilst atheism can be coherently ignorance, I think it weakens your case to be illogical. Your logical position is that you don't have to accept it. You cannot argue against logic, as you're trying to do here.

---

So in a nutshell, the christian bible was propoganda CONSTRUCTED by a group of politicians whose only goal was to unite both an empire and a religion.

Don't be silly. the Roman USED the religion and the leaders of the church were manipulated and used the opportunity to gain personal power and act against their Christian beliefs.

---

when it was written IT WAS LITERAL..

LMAO

The only way you can dismiss these supposedly ignorant goat herders is by using the ignorant bullshit proposed by modern literalist numbskulls.

You don't have to base your atheism on stupidity. Do yourself a favour here.

[Xyster]

when it was written IT WAS LITERAL..

LMAO

The only way you can dismiss these supposedly ignorant goat herders is by using the ignorant bullshit proposed by modern literalist numbskulls.

You don't have to base your atheism on stupidity. Do yourself a favour here.

Nope I based my Atheism on religions stupidity in general and lack of evedence... as in when it was written it was literal..... so back in biblical days or even history they didnt stone gays? or commit genocide in the name of god? The crusades musta been made up......and the whole slavery thing is false too I suppose. Now with the whole slavery thing I realize that it was done alot (hell it still is) it didnt nessacarily have to do with religion in general but it was backed by religion IE as in oh god says I can so its ok.

[tackattack]

@min I've only perused this topic, bubt I've rarely walked away from any frank conversation regarding God, it's usually the other way. I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree after both people can see the other side of whatever point.

@ Rwandrall
Sorry the thread got hijacked.. let's start over with what has been gleened so far. I'm up for a discussion.

[Eilonnwy]

Fr0d0, you'd have a point about physical dying being introduced if God didn't kick them out so they wouldn't have access to the "Tree of Life" making them immortal. So to claim that it makes it so they can physically die is bullshit.

You want to use your own interpretation so the story jives with your version of Christianity, be my guest. My point is about the lying, not what you get out of the story. You think it's a story about the human condition, I think it's a story about God not wanting humans to be just like him.

You're arguing that a the interpretation of the story is logical. Last I checked, interpretations are more matters of opinions. Different people can have different interpretations of a story. I am not arguing against logic, but simply your interpretation.

Really, Fr0d0, I expected better from you. You're speaking nonsense now.

To be fair, Adam and Eve did eventually die. I believe the point of the allegory is that in Eden they were to live forever, but once they were cast out, they were mortal. They were pure, and close to god, but upon eating the fruit, banished from the holy garden and enslaved to man's short hourglass.

Read the story again. God banishes them not only as punishment but to keep them from the Tree of Life so they couldn't become immortal, meaning they had the ability to die as it was.

3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever

Source: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/3.html