Proving the Bible is false in few words.

[xSilverPhinx]

Personally I think that bringing up historical facts which do not support the bible, comparative religion which gives them a wider view of religions in general and make them think about subjective interpretation will go longer way in disproving the bible to Christians. The best way to widen the narrow minded experience that Christians who believe in the literal bible is to undermine the book's foundations.

You have to remember that if they believe in a book such as that, it's because objective logic does not apply. It's something else that "feeds" their belief in the bible being the literal word of god. They have "faith".

[tackattack]

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Renumbering is fine, whatever's easiest for discussion.

1. I don't think it limits divine omnipotence at all. It may be better stated as absolute power to do anything within this universe. I don't know if God would be omnipotent without a universe to have power over, powerful enough to create, but without a universe that could be as easy as thinking about it.

I'll use the infamous clockmaker as an example. Let's say God is the maker of a fine complex clock. He can reach into the big clock and just pull out a gearso he can clean it and put it back in. Perhaps the little gremlins living inside the clock rely on the immutability of a set of gears and their pins. God could reach in and bend what the gears thought was an immutable piece of metal to allow room for him to work, he then returns it back to it's original shape. He still has a presence outside the universe and can see everything going on inside and would know the best way to manipulate the items inside therefor not limiting the omnimax principles at all....

2...(cont) Then you're left with omni-benevolence, which is completely subjective as to your interpretation of his motives.

3. To each their own, might want to check you destructive tendencies on a percieved benefactor though.

1. I'll try out a longer version of the argument.
i) If god exists in the universe, then all of god exists in the universe. This is definitionally true, since the universe includes everything that can possibly interact with things that are in the universe.
ii) If all of god exists in the universe, and materialism is true, then god is entirely material. Denying this one, and saying that god is only partly material, gets you back to some sort of dualism with all of the problems that come with it.
iii) Lets call the material substance of god g-stuff. We obviously have no idea what actual properties g-stuff has, although we can assume that its significantly different from 'normal' matter and energy, which we'll call n-stuff.
iv) In order for god to be able to have an controlled effect on n-stuff, then some sort of nomological (law-like) relationship needs to pertain between g-stuff and n-stuff.
v) Thus god is constrained by whatever nomological relationship exists between g-stuff and n-stuff.
vi) Since god is a highly ordered entity, it seems necessary that there should also be nomological relationships between elements of g-stuff. Thus god is also constrained by the internal laws of g-stuff.

Note that god is only constrained by whatever laws apply to g-stuff/ n-stuff and g-stuff/ g-stuff interactions. Since the known laws of physics are all about n-stuff/ n-stuff interactions, they obviously wouldn't apply to god at all. Exactly what god can and cannot do becomes an unknown, since we don't know anything about g-stuff laws.

3. Well, afaics a comfortable slave is still a slave, and a benevolent slave-owner is still an oppressor. I'd shoot down the spaceship in the name of human freedom and dignity.

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1. If we're using the word universe as an abstract concept, rather than a time in a spacial orientation seems reasonable. I think in i., it's not necessarily true that "all" would be inclusive within the universe. For example, if God were corporeal we'd say "God's hand" instead of "all of God" in i. Seeing as he's most likely incorporeal then for us to hold i. as true we'd have to assume that there is absolute similarity tothe point of uniformity in hatever makes up the G-stuff.

3.- Is your boss at work an opressor?

[paintpooper]

I'm still alive btw.
Biblical god is FAKE! Believe in a god I don't care, just not a god written about in books those are fictitious made up by man.
Why can't people just accept we are a tiny speck in this immense universe. We are not special. We are one solar system in one galaxy of BILLIONS of galaxy's. The sheer number of planets/stars out there is impossible to comprehend.
This is just "how it is" the universe is just as we see it nothing special nothing supernatural, this is the universe.

[tackattack]

Is that the atheist version of the "God just is" arguement?

[fr0d0]

Hmm... "god just isn't"

[paintpooper]

But they have stupid reasons for the God argument. (Just look outside how does that not prove god) lol

If they took all man based religions and took a more agnostic point, I think we would all be on the same page.
Something created the big bang, and all matter came from somewhere. UNLESS that is "just how it is". No gods, just the way our natural universe works. Our world is just a infinite space with matter in it that creates everything we know ... maybe we are on the 5th big bang or the millionth.I don't know, and I'm not even sure it really matters much. All I know is man based religion is false. IE Christianity, Muslim.. Greek Gods. They have no place in politics or the way we run the world that is where my gripe with religion is at.

[Paul the Human]

They have no place in politics or the way we run the world that is where my gripe with religion is at.

100% Agreed. Religion is outdated as a governmental system. Personal freedom has been realized by too many people for that now.

[fr0d0]

Religion never was indated as a governmental system.

[Godscreated]

Is that the atheist version of the "God just is" arguement?

Good one Tack wish I had thought of that.

[tackattack]

I'm sure the jews would disagree with you on that Fr0d0, theocracies and ecclesiocracies are outdated but they were a intended as a definite type of government ( Israel, papacy, Byzantine empire I believe, etc). Religion I believe was misused in this way for the gain of control and power, which is the goals of some religions. I agree that religion should have no place in modern governments.
@paintpooper- We still wouldn't be on the same page with "Something created the big bang, and all matter came from somewhere. UNLESS that is "just how it is". ". as a theist I'd believe in the former and as an atheist you'd be on the latter. We'd have no way of determining which is the null characteristic of the universe. I have a lot of respect for atheism, they assume everything starts out as null or nothing and that's very effective when gauging materialistic things.