Are you okay with your (or your partner's) vajayjay?

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah for me "eww" is not about the gender it's just about certain people and I just happen to be straight.

I haven't been attracted to a guy yet, I guess that could change I'm just not banking on it

[Losty]

That's not why it would be "gross" to me as a straight man... it is more to do with the fact that as a straight man it would be, by definition, without consent. So at best I'd be grossed out and shocked.

I am no homophobe.

If you are repulsed,  rather than simply disinterested, at the thought of sexual activity with a man, then you have some homophobia.

I have in many many circumstances been absolutely repulsed at the mere thought of a sexual activity with a man.

Not sure if that makes me a homophobic or a sexist

[Edwardo Piet]

Yeah we got this

Goodnight all.

[Losty]

@ Rocketsurgeon You missed my point completely, I'm repulsed by non-consensual sex regardless of sex. Is that homophobia?

EDIT: It's irrational of me but merely hypothetically suggesting that I might be the slightest bit homophobic has upset me quite a bit. I apologise for being so overly sensitive.

If I wanted to suck a dick I'm sure I'd enjoy it. Seen as I don't want to and thus far at least have never been attracted to a man then if I were to suck a penis it would not be with my consent. I find non-consensual activity repulsive. Clear? Please don't think of me as homophobic I want to be your friend as I have a neurotic need to be liked by everyone I meet.

With all due respect, I think the "non-consent" is a non-sequitur, and a red herring. Of course non-consensual sex is repulsive to most people! What I was pointing out was that you implied that the only possible  way you could have oral sex with a man is if he was forcing you. That is a degree of repulsion that I felt went beyond mere disinterest, and warranted some self-examination on your part.

Are you serious? I do not understand how you can say this? That makes no sense at all. It is somehow wrong of someone to imply that they would never have consensual sex with someone they're not attracted to? It seems like you're saying that everyone who is not bisexual is a bigot.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

The penis, like the vagina, is just a body part. It is not icky, it is not gross. It's just a part. We're systematically taught to be grossed out by them and/or ashamed of them, by a culture that is rooted in anti-sex religious ideologies, even if we don't easily spot the programs as they operate in our own minds. However, several books on sexual psychology go into pretty good depth on this sexual-cultural pathology.

As for the supposed "grossness" of putting a penis in your mouth, you're a couple of million times worse-off (literally, from a bacteria-count point of view) kissing a girl's hand as putting a penis or a vagina in your mouth, whether or not they are all washed. Human mouths are not much better, and are in fact worse than our genitals. These are some of the amazing things I learned in Microbiology 211. After learning just how dirty our hands and mouth are while testing various portions of the body (even did butts... yep, swabbed that sphincter!), despite our class's best efforts at brushing and rinsing mouths, and washing hospital-scrub-style with antimicrobial soap in the case of our hands, I did some quick math and realized that our genitals were significantly cleaner than the mouths they were going into.

So all the "eww" is all in our minds. You want to really be grossed out? Look at cheese or yogurt on a microscope slide, spread very thin and gram-stained so they show up. Trust me, it's a Bad Idea™.

Point is, while I'm not attracted to men sexually, from a "grossness" point of view, you're much, much better off sucking a dick than a finger. No joke.

How about the psychological eww of doing something sexual with someone you're not comfortable having sex with regardless of orientation??

I completely disagree with you. Eww isn't always about germs. People have a right to be uncomfortable with the thought of a sexual experience that makes them uncomfortable. It's not bigoted or immature.

It's hard to give a gender based example because I consider myself pansexual. But I would compare it to the thought of a sexual experience with someone who I am not comfortable. Eww. Yes the thought I have is eww. Some stranger who gives me a creepy vibe, the thought of doing anything sexual with them is eww to me. I don't think that makes me immature.

FFS... really!?! DAMN IT.

I am not making the point that I expect a person to wish to have sex with someone they are not attracted to. That has never been my point. It has always been a red-herring/straw-man version of my argument, and I have repeatedly tried to explain only to be FUCKING IGNORED. GODDAMNIT!

The question I have been addressing is why we personally consider certain acts "gross", or "eww", as opposed to simply not being motivated by our own instincts to perform those acts. 

And I have never called anyone immature, here.

Being, as you say, "absolutely repulsed at the mere thought of a sexual activity with a man" is not the same thing as "absolutely repulsed by the sex act of being with men".

I too am repulsed by a number of women, many of whom would be considered traditionally attractive, since personality has a great deal to do with my own sense of sexual attractiveness in a human being.

The reason I mentioned the germs issue was simply to illustrate that there's no biological basis for considering one act disgusting, when most of us have other acts we consider normal which are in demonstrable fact more physically disgusting, on a germs basis. And yet, many people will claim that the act of gay sex is itself  a disgusting, degrading thing for a man to do (this is not his position, I wish to be clear, but it is a common one I encounter in such discussions), despite there being no rational basis to consider it so. An instinctive negative reaction to something without rational basis is a phobia. That includes homophobia and certain forms of mild racism.

I made the parallel with this mild sort of homophobia and the sort of mild racism people sometimes feel when they have an instinctive, phobic reaction to a person they have been taught is "dangerous", as in racial or ethnic or religious stereotypes, yet who would not recognize on their own that their reactions are indeed racist, despite the inaccuracy of describing a well-intentioned but badly-reacting person as "a racist person".

My entire goal here was to get him to try to evaluate why it might be that he considers the act  to be "eww", as opposed to simply not wishing to do it. Disinterest and disgust are two very different things, and I think "well I have never been attracted to a guy" is a weak excuse. I too have never been attracted to a guy, but I don't think "eww" at the idea. 

Indeed, he did  evaluate his position, and upon reflection clarified that he would certainly consider that act if he found a man attractive. It is a reasonable answer. Your strawman versions of my argument would mean I am calling myself and any other straight guy a homophobe on mere basis of not desiring  to have sex with men, an entirely different question. As should be apparent by now, I strongly resent having both my decency and my arguments misrepresented in this way.

[Losty]

---

How about the psychological eww of doing something sexual with someone you're not comfortable having sex with regardless of orientation??

I completely disagree with you. Eww isn't always about germs. People have a right to be uncomfortable with the thought of a sexual experience that makes them uncomfortable. It's not bigoted or immature.

It's hard to give a gender based example because I consider myself pansexual. But I would compare it to the thought of a sexual experience with someone who I am not comfortable. Eww. Yes the thought I have is eww. Some stranger who gives me a creepy vibe, the thought of doing anything sexual with them is eww to me. I don't think that makes me immature.

FFS... really!?! DAMN IT.

I am not making the point that I expect a person to wish to have sex with someone they are not attracted to. That has never been my point. It has always been a red-herring/straw-man version of my argument, and I have repeatedly tried to explain only to be FUCKING IGNORED. GODDAMNIT!

The question I have been addressing is why we personally consider certain acts "gross", or "eww", as opposed to simply not being motivated by our own instincts to perform those acts. 

And I have never called anyone immature, here.

Being, as you say, "absolutely repulsed at the mere thought of a sexual activity with a man" is not the same thing as "absolutely repulsed by the sex act of being with men".

I too am repulsed by a number of women, many of whom would be considered traditionally attractive, since personality has a great deal to do with my own sense of sexual attractiveness in a human being.

The reason I mentioned the germs issue was simply to illustrate that there's no biological basis for considering one act disgusting, when most of us have other acts we consider normal which are in demonstrable fact more physically disgusting, on a germs basis. And yet, many people will claim that the act of gay sex is itself  a disgusting, degrading thing for a man to do (this is not his position, I wish to be clear, but it is a common one I encounter in such discussions), despite there being no rational basis to consider it so. An instinctive negative reaction to something without rational basis is a phobia. That includes homophobia and certain forms of mild racism.

I made the parallel with this mild sort of homophobia and the sort of mild racism people sometimes feel when they have an instinctive, phobic reaction to a person they have been taught is "dangerous", as in racial or ethnic or religious stereotypes, yet who would not recognize on their own that their reactions are indeed racist, despite the inaccuracy of describing a well-intentioned but badly-reacting person as "a racist person".

My entire goal here was to get him to try to evaluate why it might be that he considers the act  to be "eww", as opposed to simply not wishing to do it. Disinterest and disgust are two very different things, and I think "well I have never been attracted to a guy" is a weak excuse. I too have never been attracted to a guy, but I don't think "eww" at the idea. 

Indeed, he did  evaluate his position, and upon reflection clarified that he would certainly consider that act if he found a man attractive. It is a reasonable answer. Your strawman versions of my argument would mean I am calling myself and any other straight guy a homophobe on mere basis of not desiring  to have sex with men, an entirely different question. As should be apparent by now, I strongly resent having both my decency and my arguments misrepresented in this way.

---

You'll have to bear with me, I'm just responding in order so I haven't come to anything further explaining your post. I just responded to it as I interpreted it.

I didn't read your whole post because it just seemed so angry what with the bolding and the capslock and the exclamation points. I am in no place emotionally to be yelled at tonight so I will bow out. My apologies if I have said something offensive or stupid.

[Violet]

I like men, I'm even prone to perhaps overly-defending them in the face of absurdist feminism... I like their muscles, I like their body shapes, I like their hair, I like their oils, I even like their precum (much yum)...

But I absolutely am revolted by the taste of their cum, and I never think of their cock in a sexual manner except as a way of making love to their brain (their face and sounds and shuddering bodies interest me... NOT their penis). I don't find penis remotely attractive. It looks ridiculous. It feels ridiculous. I'd prefer it be a cunt and the rest of the man still be there. And plenty often I feel repulsed by penis (penis-pics are literally the least appetizing thing in the universe, instantaneous turn off).

And yet, I wouldn't say that it makes me either phobic in any sense, or sexist at all. Cocks are simply not my preference, and they can even disgust me plenty often. Infact, one of the parts I 'dread' most about sex with a guy... is him orgasming into my mouth. This is also a matter of PERSONAL TASTE. I do not like it. That doesn't mean shit about whether I like having sex with guys, or whether I treat guys with any remote inkling of 'phobia' (given my history, mind... sometimes I address SOME men with no small level of fear, but unlike the suggestion of it being a 'societally learned' phobia: that's strictly from abuse, in this case).

[MTL]

post deleted

[Thumpalumpacus]

Homophobia is bigotry. Being repulsed by the thought of having gay sex is sexual identity.

Homophobia is the public expression of one's preferences in order to denigrate those who don't share your preferences.

I find the idea of sucking a dick revolting, for myself; not because of germs, but because psychologically, sexual relations with a man are distinctly not what I want. I wasn't raised to think gays are bad, that I shouldn't be one, or anything like that. I've got a couple of different reasons, I think, for feeling that way; one is my innate sexuality, which is heterosexual; another is that as a child I was molested by way of being forced to fellate my molester.

I also have very close relationships with gays of both genders. I've campaigned for equal rights for gays. I'm not a homophobe. I'm a person who finds the idea of sucking a dick revolting.

I think you're taking the etymology of the word too literally, rather than focusing on usage, which is, of course, the crux of language.

[Cinjin]

Well, this is a strange thread.

I'm always curious as to why people don't like to use the correct word for body parts.  It's a vagina, not a va-ja-ja or whatever you call it.

That being said - vaginas are utterly disgusting.  They are also beautiful to behold.  
To say that any one vagina (or penis for that matter) is always a certain way is simply foolishness.  
The location and nature of genitals naturally makes them prone to nauseating conditions ... so take a shower and uncover a world of beauty and satisfaction.  


 /thread