Are all atheists this ill-informed about religion?

[abaris]

Or these passages just could have been omitted. If it were just men making things up, as many of you believe, we wouldn't have such passages.

Wouldn't we? Methinks you're not well versed in ancient god myths. Besides the bible, that is. Which fits the standard repertoire of it's time.

[Rhondazvous]

Consider: 

I think, therefore I am
God predetermined all my thoughts
Therefore, I don't think
Therefore, I am not

That's the problem with Descartes' enthymeme. Do you fail to exist when the words "I think" are not at the forefront of your conscious mind?

"I think therefore I am" is a real world description of human consciousness and cannot be used to give credence to a fairytale. You might as well argue that the good fairy had no control over Sleeping Beauty's life because by the girl's own free actions she pricked her own finger. So there. Except even the fairy does not claim to be all powerful. Alpha male is trying to look at omniscience alone. But when you add omnipotence, there's just no way for any creature to have free will.

[John V]

"I think therefore I am" is a real world description of human consciousness and cannot  be used to give credence to a fairytale. You might as well argue that the good fairy had no control over Sleeping Beauty's  life because by the girl's own free actions she pricked her own finger. So there.  Except even the fairy does not claim to be all powerful. Alpha male is trying to look at omniscience alone. But when you add omnipotence, there's just no way for any creature to have free will.

LOL - I'm not arguing that we have free will.

[Minimalist]

Omniscience does not survive Gen. 1.

omniscient


adjective
1.
having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

It was so "good" that Mr. Omniscient then had to kill damn near everything because he had fucked up so badly.  Shouldn't an "omniscient" god have known better?  This fucker is on a par with Bush's campaign advisers.

[robvalue]

Genesis

3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

For someone so good at hide and seek, he sure lost track of those two pretty quickly.

[Edwardo Piet]

To say that god is evil for allowing suffering in humans implies that humans are persons or agents with rights to be free from suffering. That premise usually goes unstated. I'm saying that, in arguing that an omniscient creator precludes free will, even if successful you've just created another problem, i.e. humans no longer exist as independent persons with any rights. You win a battle but still lose the war.

We already don't have free will. That doesn't affect our rights at all. We've never had free will but human rights and legal rights are always important.

Rights are political and also good moral rules... free will is something that has never been nor ever could be possible in the contra-causal sense.

[Rhondazvous]

Well, you don't think god, who, according to the Christian world view, is s all powerful and all knowing, should be held accountable for his actions. So why should man, who know nothing and can do even less, be held accountable for things over which we have only limited control?

God is all knowing. We're not. He's obviously in much better position to make correct judgments than we are.

The Bible tells us that god hardened Pharaoh's heart. Yet Christians still find some kind of way to make Pharaoh responsible. By putting yourself in line with this worldview, you betray an inability to think either rationally or compassionately.

The bible also says that pharaoh hardened his own heart.

You claim to disagree with us but you don't look at the whole picture. And you don't address what we are saying. You just pick some little thing and disagree with it. That is dishonest.

Go to a theist board and try being in the minority role, with 5 or 10 people jumping in on your conversation, and see if you can address every point made to you.

1. If god is in a better position to make better judgments than I can, then why doesn't her? Your whole argument rests on "might makes right," and that just doesn't hold water with a lot of people. Justify it all you want to.
2. I should give you a kudos, no I should give you a rep for pointing out yet another biblical contradiction.
3. I'm not an evangelist for atheism, so I don't go to theist websites. You, on the other hand, came here as a troll. The fact that you weren't banned is, in part, due to our patience and open-mindedness and, in part, due to us letting you have enough rope to hang yourself trying to defend the indefensible.

[John V]

1. If god is in a better position to make better judgments than I  can, then why doesn't her?

He does, but your limited knowledge doesn't let you see that.

Your whole argument rests on "might makes right," and that just doesn't hold water with a lot of people. Justify it all you want to.

I just made, and you responded to in the previous sentence, an argument based on knowledge. Now you say my whole argument is based on power. Go figure.

2. I should give you a kudos, no I should give you a rep for pointing out yet another biblical contradiction.

It's not a contradiction. At some points it was God, at some points it was pharaoh himself. THey're not mutually exclusive.

3.  I'm not an evangelist for atheism, so I don't go to theist websites. You, on the other hand, came here as a troll. The fact that you weren't banned is, in part, due to our patience and open-mindedness and, in part, due to us letting you have enough rope to hang yourself trying to defend the indefensible.

Don't feed the trolls. Do you need me to save you from yourself and put you on ignore?

[Rhondazvous]

Judging by the meat aisle or insecticide aisle in the local store, that's what we humans do with other species. So, by your own standards, we're immoral. Why should we not then be judged?

If I was God, I would not give human beings any good reason to eat animal meat. I would ensure they were perfectly satisfied physically and psychologically without it.

I would also ensure that no creature is a natural pest to others.

Didn't he just tell me that god is wiser than me and able to make better judgments? Now he has his god playing tu quoque with humans.

Dummy, it was god who arranged a world where every living thing lives at the expense of every other living thing. Even plants benefit from decomposition of animal bodies. To put us in such a world and then judge us for doing what we must is...how can you even try to justify that?

[GrandizerII]

If I was God, I would not give human beings any good reason to eat animal meat. I would ensure they were perfectly satisfied physically and psychologically without it.

I would also ensure that no creature is a natural pest to others.

Didn't he just tell me that god is wiser than me and able to make better judgments?  Now he has his god playing tu quoque with humans.

Dummy, it was god who arranged a world where every living thing lives at the expense of every other living thing. Even plants benefit from decomposition of animal bodies. To put us in such a world and then judge us for doing what we must is...how can you even try to justify that?

It's called rationalisation, providing "acceptable" but unsuitable reasons for what he perceives as unacceptable views.