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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 5:26 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 3:42 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: You want to know your loved one is in a better place and not suffering, it brings comfort to you. That's emotional, not rational.
Whoa there. I don't even know whether there is a "better place" for my loved one to go. Assuming facts not in evidence, counselor.
With that said, I literally watched my grandfather die a painful death (cancer). I did want him to no longer suffer. What brings me comfort was that I was able to hold his hand and look into his eyes and tell him that I loved him before he died, and that I had the opportunity to kiss him goodbye after. A "better place" for him to go never entered my mind.
But why the implicit false dichotomy? Why pit emotional reasons and rational reasons against each other. You seem to be implying that rational reasons for wanting/doing/saying something can never be emotional, or emotional reasons can never be rational.
Teenaged X-Files obsession + Bermuda Triangle episode + Self-led school research project = Atheist.
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 6:10 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 3:42 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: Why are you sad when you go to a funeral?
For that, I don't need religion. It's my loss, if the one to be burried was close to me.
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 6:20 pm
I agree, hope. Something to hold on to when times are bad and when you have no control
When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts~
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 7:11 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 7:38 pm by robvalue.)
In no particular order, these may apply in any combination:
1. Indoctrination
2. Social pressure / need for social group
3. Threats and fear
4. Inability to cope with the idea of death
5. Being uncomfortable not having answers to fundamental questions / need for constant, simple answers
6. Intellectual laziness (science takes effort to learn)
7. Placebo effect
8. Confirmation bias
9. Preferring comfortable beliefs over true beliefs
10. Refusal/inability to apply scepticism consistently
11. Need to feel special / need for purpose
12. Need for an authority figure / discomfort with "no one being in charge"
13. Overactive pattern spotting / jumping to irrational conclusions
14. Interpreting unusual events and mental glitches through the local mythology
15. Justification for bigotry
16. Sensations caused by group dynamics
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 7:30 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 3:37 pm)Beccs Wrote: Many reasons, I would assume.
Childhood indoctrination. The need for community.
I read an article a while ago - I'll try to find a link - that seems to imply that it's the more intelligent people who are likely to be drawn into cults.
That would be an interesting article to read.
btw, who is that gorgeous lady in the avatar? If that's you, vas-y femme!
The god who allows children to be raped out of respect for the free will choice of the rapist, but punishes gay men for engaging in mutually consensual sex couldn't possibly be responsible for an intelligently designed universe.
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 8:44 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 3:42 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: I think it hinges primarily on the emotions surrounding hope. Why are you sad when you go to a funeral? What questions go through your mind? Logic and reason certainly play a part, but don't discount the part emotions play in our decision making. You want to know your loved one is in a better place and not suffering, it brings comfort to you. That's emotional, not rational. I'm speaking purely about "religion" and not "belief in God" as I think the distinction is important. Einstein believed in an impersonal deity, but not religion of any kind. Religion is solely to do with doctrine associated to a deity. Religion offers answers to perhaps otherwise unanswerable questions, or answers that bring more comfort than alternatives.
Where does my baby go when she died? Religion says she is in Heaven, this indescribable place of pure joy that you are free to allow your imagination to fill. Non-religious answer says, she will slowly rot and decay in the ground or be ashes spread on the dirt or sea, nothing more. It's empty and hollow and doesn't fulfill your emotional damage with your loss.
Religion fills emotional voids. Intelligence, though it does play a factor, is not the primary reason for accepting religion.
I watch my mother who is deeply religious and I can add another few things. She appears to use religion a means of self reflection. You can do that without being religious of course, but it provides the avenue she need to that. Religion also answers questions that have unsatisfying (even if true answers) in the real world with more comforting answers (though probably not true) about why bad things happen.
Community is another big component.
I don't think intelligence has much to do with it. Objectivity does. For those of us fated to be objective, there's no choice. Atheism it is.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 8:46 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 8:47 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
The answer is simple: love comes before logic. IOW what you love most deeply is what you want to know about most. Reason is only a tool directed toward an end.
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 8:50 pm
(October 20, 2015 at 8:46 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: The answer is simple: love comes before logic.
Love itself is illogical, yet atheists love while still not falling for the con of religious faith.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 9:19 pm
Y'all have your own cons like thinking that atheism is the only rational position.
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RE: Why Do Otherwise Intelligent People Succomb to Religion?
October 20, 2015 at 10:05 pm
(This post was last modified: October 20, 2015 at 10:13 pm by Excited Penguin.)
To be objective is to be intelligent. The two are one and the same for the purpose of this conversation.
Love doesn't really concern logic but it can be controlled in some sense, or at least that's my personal experience. If we're talking about romantic love, for example, then that's just like indulging yourself in a very powerful drug. You can always end the addiction, most of the time people don't though.
With religion it's an entirely different matter. It's about passively obsessing over nothing, basically. As terrifyingly boring as that sounds, that's what it is.
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