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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 2:49 pm
(October 30, 2015 at 2:48 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 30, 2015 at 2:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: As always, I don't believe in any of those things, you've straw-manned me yet again. As soon as you can muster up the courage to acknowledge your well demonstrated habit...I'll have a discussion with you that doesn't revolve around pointing out how inept you are.
if intelligent design did not create the laws of physics what created the laws of physics ? you dont believe intelligence created it so how do you believe they came to exist ?
What created God with such omniscience and omnipotence?
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 2:55 pm
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 3:07 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 30, 2015 at 2:49 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I'm neither required nor inclined to explain anything to you which has already been explained at length, multiple times, throughout this thread. It didn't help the first time, or the second time...or the next time..or......
Here you are, still shitposting...why would that change? You have yet to respond to -my- position...after having asked for it. Why did you ask in the first place? Can't you have this conversation with yourself? Is my participation required, is anyone else in this thread required?
im just asking for one simple thing why do you believe the laws of physics and chemistry which are well defined and specific exist ? you dont believe they were intelligently designed and you dont believe that they created themselves so what is your explanation why is that so difficult to answer ive given my reasons why i believe in intelligent design
(October 30, 2015 at 2:14 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: (October 30, 2015 at 2:04 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: ok you say " organic chemistry just works that way " chemicals react in a certain well defined way do you believe these chemicals designed themselves to react in that well defined way , each unthinking chemical developed its own laws of self government then ? and you say " operate under the laws of physics " which is well defined and limited
I went back and re-bolded some of what I said, since you seem to have missed it.
Why, then, having read those things, would you POSSIBLY HAVE GROUNDS to ask me "do you believe these chemicals designed themselves"?
Seriously... why? Did you not read, or not understand, what I said?
if they did not design themselves and intelligence is not responsible for designing them then how do you explain their existence which is well defined limited and specific ?
(October 30, 2015 at 2:21 pm)Irrational Wrote: (October 30, 2015 at 2:19 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: what are your arguments or proof if you have any that unintelligent particles in existence
define and govern their own behavior ? why do you believe in unintelligent programming of the well defined organized laws of physics and chemistry ?
Intelligence is not necessary to yield certain patterns which you are then evolved billions of years later to perceive "as well organized".
why do you believe that?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 3:11 pm
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 3:17 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Yes, you've given your -reason-, and that reason has been shown to be an impressively poor one. You're an ignorant shitwit who can't even blunder into a rational conversation by accident, full stop.
Are you asking me...why something defined by human beings...exists, and is defined? Really? Gee, idk...probably has something to do with us defining those laws, don't you think? If we hadn't, then there would be no chemistry, no physics. There would be alchemy, magic....."goddidits"...that sort of nonsense. You know...the kind of nonsense you believe in.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 3:14 pm
(October 30, 2015 at 2:55 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 30, 2015 at 2:21 pm)Irrational Wrote: Intelligence is not necessary to yield certain patterns which you are then evolved billions of years later to perceive "as well organized".
why do you believe that?
Why do you believe that intelligence is necessary as the primary instigator of everything?
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 3:15 pm
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 3:22 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 30, 2015 at 2:39 pm)Esquilax Wrote: (October 30, 2015 at 2:19 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: what are your arguments or proof if you have any that unintelligent particles in existence
define and govern their own behavior ? why do you believe in unintelligent programming of the well defined organized laws of physics and chemistry ?
Particles don't have behavior, they have interactions. Any two things in the universe will do something when they're put together, even if that's just a lack of reaction. There's literally no possible way that they won't do a thing, there will be an effect that happens; physics and chemistry are simply human efforts to chart what those effects will be, what variables influence them, and from there to predict why that might be happening. They are "well defined," because it is in our best interest to construct an effective framework of knowledge by defining them well.
Thus, there is no "programming," that particles obey, just the inescapable fact that, by definition, objects will do something, because even inertness is an observable phenomena. What would it even mean for a particle to produce no effect that can be observed? There's no need for a programmer, because there's no programming, just a series of causes and effects that we observe.
You're arguing from analogy here, and that's just fallacious.
isnt science based on nature ; chemistry , biology and physics behaving in a certain predictable way ? theories of nature have been tested repeatedly and scientists have determined that these laws of nature do exist and are well defined and predictable . are you suggesting that natural laws dont really exist and instead are completely random and unpredictable ?
(October 30, 2015 at 2:44 pm)robvalue Wrote: I've never heard any sane person claim the laws of nature "created themselves", and certainly not within this thread.
yet they exist right ? if not intelligently created or self created what is the alternative theory of why they exist? and then why do you believe in this theory what supports it ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 3:27 pm
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 3:28 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You familiar with the term false dichotomy, Jen? The only choices are "intelligently created" and "created itself". Really? No ones offered you a third option....if I went back through the thread.....I wouldn't be able to find anything other than those two...and if I went out into the universe...that's all there is? Everything is either intelligently created by x.....or created itself?
No ones answered this question of yours...and certainly no ones answered it multiple times...right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 3:33 pm
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 3:35 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 30, 2015 at 3:11 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Yes, you've given your -reason-, and that reason has been shown to be an impressively poor one. You're an ignorant shitwit who can't even blunder into a rational conversation by accident, full stop.
Are you asking me...why something defined by human beings...exists, and is defined? Really? Gee, idk...probably has something to do with us defining those laws, don't you think? If we hadn't, then there would be no chemistry, no physics. There would be alchemy, magic....."goddidits"...that sort of nonsense. You know...the kind of nonsense you believe in.
so your saying the believed to be organized laws of nature do not really exist we just think that they exist
and in reality its really just disorganized chaos ?
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 3:34 pm
(This post was last modified: October 30, 2015 at 3:36 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Still haven't entirely grasped what it means to strawman someone, have you? Or are you just a dishonest person? Respond to me when you're pretending to respond to me, please.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 3:36 pm
(October 30, 2015 at 3:27 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You familiar with the term false dichotomy, Jen? The only choices are "intelligently created" and "created itself". Really? No ones offered you a third option....if I went back through the thread.....I wouldn't be able to find anything other than those two...and if I went out into the universe...that's all there is? Everything is either intelligently created by x.....or created itself?
No ones answered this question of yours...and certainly no ones answered it multiple times...right?
I know I tried last night several times.
Don't know how I was able to maintain my patience.
And here we are a day later, and the same logical failures, fallacies, misunderstanding of science and the scientific method from Jenny.
I'm beginning to believe she's a BOT. No one can have their failures pointed out continuously for days, and continue to make them.
And no, Jenny, this is not a matter of opinion. Your arguments are provably flawed.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Here's why Creatards might be right
October 30, 2015 at 3:43 pm
(October 30, 2015 at 3:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Still haven't entirely grasped what it means to strawman someone, have you? Or are you just a dishonest person? Respond to me when you're pretending to respond to me, please.
It made me laugh to see how you've given up on her actually responding to you. We've moved past that, into when she's pretending to respond to you. I can't wait to see where we'll be in a couple of days...
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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