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(December 1, 2015 at 9:05 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Alllllriht then, nice to meet you. Welcome to the forums, friend! Wanna hook up?
Sorry CL, I did not mean to start a dog pile. This dude is totally out of line.
Haha, no worries. Not your fault at all. I find it amusing actually lol.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
(December 1, 2015 at 9:13 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: On this post here I was specifically talking about my friend who took a pregnant stray cat to get her kittens aborted.
There ARE too many cats in this world.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
(December 1, 2015 at 9:01 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:
(December 1, 2015 at 7:58 pm)Nestor Wrote: Of course an abortion for the vast majority constitutes an incredibly difficult decision, and since we are talking about terminating a human being in its early stages of development, that's absolutely the way it should be. That sexual intercourse practiced irresponsibly can easily result in the conception of a human life should also be taken seriously, and the decision to engage in such behavior without taking the necessary precautions such as birth control, the morning after pill, condoms, or - my favorite - the pullout method, should also be incredibly difficult for any person who has no desire to bring another life into the world.
I agree that sex should be taken serious (in the sense that it may result in pregnancy - and let's not forget STDs), but consenting to sex does not mean consenting to pregnancy.
I sure hope not. Fertilization is an inexact science. But the price of failed birth control is carrying a baby to term only for those who feel that way about it.
(December 1, 2015 at 7:42 pm)Aroura Wrote: I see, so it is the tasty option.
Would you be ok with the cat abortion if the remains had been used as food? A lot of people in the east eat cat. I personally don't ever want to try it, but it is a thing.
What about killing animals to feed to other animals? For instance, if the aborted fetuses were fed to living cats? Because it would have been for food, that would have been ok, then.
Also...I assume this rule about killing for food does not extend to humans, even though we are technically animals. You mean non-human animals, correct? Just clarifying the cannibalism loop-hole here.
What about you, Aroura? We never talk anymore since I stopped having time for mafia. How would you answer all these questions?
I do not think all individual life is inherently sacred, so I would have helped the woman with the stray cat. Unwanted kittens are most likely just going to be killed later in a shelter, which I suppose you know if you work with strays. I find people who refuse to fix their pets abhorent, but I am getting off topic...lol.
I used to think there was nothing at all wrong with killing animals for food. I grew up on a farm, after all, and I helped kill a few turkeys and chickens, even.
But as I have gotten older, my views have changed a bit. I still take no issue with the morality of meat eating in and of itself, but the lives of most food animals are horrid, the cost to our ecosystem is worse, and to individual human health it is also harmful.
I now eat meat rarely. Only free range chicken (I bought a locally raised Turkey on thanksgiving). I used to also eat wild caught fish. Then I discovered what overfishing is doing to the world, and I have stoppe eated eating fish as well. I admit I indulge in occasional processed meats...but acctually now that I think about it, we have not bought anything except chicken or turkey for months. Anyway, meat eating is fine in limited amounts, as long as the animals have a decent life, imo.
So yeah, the way I view life and suffering and moral behavior has drastically affected my personal eating habits.
I think abortion is a terrible, horrifying option. But I am glad it is a legal option. I think my emotions and my logic disagree on the topic a bit. Clearly a zygote is not a person, nor is a fetus. But If I had lost my daughter at say, 18 weeks I would have been devestated. At the same time, as an older woman who was giving birth for the first time, we had a much higher risk of complications and birth defects. My husband and I discussed it early in the pregnancy. We wanted a baby, but If the fetal tests had returned results of severe defects, including downs syndrome, we would have jointly agreed to terminate the pregnancy. I have mental issues that mean I cannot care for a special needs child. I got my tubes tied the same day my daughter was born so I would never have to face such a choice again.
I grant that I am not in a position to judge the lives, circumstances, and choices of others. I am glad that options exist, for many at least. It has only improved society, as a whole, to give women this option more freely.
December 1, 2015 at 9:39 pm (This post was last modified: December 1, 2015 at 9:39 pm by Wyrd of Gawd.)
(December 1, 2015 at 7:35 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(December 1, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Aroura Wrote: @CL, I noticed while you were searching for other people's hypocrisy, a little question I had. You said you would not help your friend get a stray cat an abortion, because all life is sacred, correct? But you are ok eating meat, and killing parasites, etc. So what kind of life, specifically, IS sacred? I would have guessed human only, but your cat story confuses me, because you implied animal life is also sacred (you said ALL), but you yourself then have many exceptions to this rule of ALL life.
So could you clarify for me when life is ok to take? Is it when an animal isn't cute? Or when it tastes good?
I'm not trying to be a bitch, just trying to understand the inconsistency there.
Quote:All life is sacred, of course. And yes, I believe that killing an animal for food is justifiable, but killing them because you don't want to take care of them is not.
OK, suppose you and some of your female relatives were captives of a gang of rapists and had several kids each by them. Do you think you would honestly dearly love all of those children when they, themselves, would grow up to become rapists and rape victims themselves? Or would you rather abort them?
December 1, 2015 at 9:45 pm (This post was last modified: December 1, 2015 at 9:56 pm by God of Mr. Hanky.)
(December 1, 2015 at 9:36 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:
(December 1, 2015 at 9:10 pm)Aroura Wrote: Sorry CL, I did not mean to start a dog pile. This dude is totally out of line.
Sorry if you take offense.
I'm new to this forum, but don't think that makes me new to atheist discussion groups (got tired of the woo-based political factions and poor format for interaction over on Patheos.com). After years of watching such discussions as this one, I really find Catholic Lady's apologetics as tiresome as they are insulting, and I just can't be cool about this particular issue when so many people are being harmed by her ideas. I can't be cool about this because those who suffer under her whims aren't just somebody else's future, they are MY future! Maybe you live in a different country than the US, if so you couldn't possibly understand.
The sort of person who argues like Catholic Lady is never going to shift her position, and will always keep up her damaging campaign to con hapless, uneducated people out of their rights to medical autonomy and freedom from religious harassment. If you think you aren't wasting your time entertaining her, then you haven't been around the atheist scene long enough.
Because most people don't think the way we do, and are much more willing to be agreeable than to deconstruct her house of cards, I reacted out of grave concern that more young minds are being raped by her now. What would you do if you witnessed a rape? Would you look the other way, or would you try and intervene?
I now notice you do have a lot of posts here, but she has twice your count. That means she's probably really good. She's knows our counter-arguments, having heard them almost as many times as we've heard every lame argumnent ever made by a theist in defense of their actions. That's the sort of person who is unfazed by facts, justice, truth, or empathy for those who their actions and ideas cause harm to, they care only about winning! That's why I don't believe she's worth encouraging in any way whatsoever.
