Attack at Planned Parenthood Clinic

[Aroura]

Seriously: if there were more people like Catholic_Lady, I'm pretty sure we'd have a 3rd Great Awakening.

If there were more people like Catholic Lady, abortion would be illegal, even in cases of rape and incest, in America.  I'm pretty sure that would not lead to the 3rd Great Awakening.

Just sayin'.

I gotta leave this thread.  Have fun "Y'all".

[Cecelia]

Many anti-choiers applaud the actions of this shooter for 'saving' the lives of innocent fetuses. Of course if those fetuses happen to be at the Planned Parenthood Clinic after they're born, or become abortion doctors then they're totally okay with them dying.

Of course this sort of thing will always devolve into a pro-choice vs anti-choice argument.

All I'll say on that is this:

A woman should have a right to do what she wants with her body. Should a woman who is raped be forced to carry the child of her rapist? If you think so, then you think that her life doesn't matter. Because it's a life she has to carry inside her for 40 weeks, a constant reminder of the rape she endured. If you think not, then you think what you consider to be a 'human being' should be punished for the actions of their father. So I can't really follow the logic people go with in either case.

Carrying a child is far more than 40 weeks of weight gain, pain and vomiting. It impacts so many parts of your life. The job you have. how many places offer maternity leave? Yet most anti-choicers are also anti mandatory offered maternity leave. Recovering from having a child, even if you give up that child, is no easy task as most mothers will tell you. Those who've never given birth really don't know what it's like. It certainly doesn't happen overnight. You don't go "boom, ready to go back to work." after a couple of nights in the hospital. Then if you choose to keep the baby, you have to be able to financially support it. And if you give it up, you have to deal with the emotional detachment from your child too. It's easy to just say "Give it up for adoption!" If you have kids, then would you give your kids up? And if you don't, what makes you so sure that's such an easy decision to make? Oh and then you have the foster system, which the child has to go through. And many children are never adopted. Of course we also have many anti-choicers who think gays shouldn't be able to adopt, which reduces the number of potential adopters.

People love to make arguments that a fetus is a human being, and has a right to life. The problem is, that means that the woman doesn't have a right to choose what to do with her own body. If men were the ones who got pregnant, abortions would be available on demand at your local Wal-Mart. Nobody should be able to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. It's really that simple. As a mother of five daughters, and as a woman myself, I can't really fathom how other women can say that it's okay for people to tell them what they can do. How would they feel if the situation was reversed? What if they got pregnant, and then were required to get an abortion. Instead you'd have back alley deliveries.

It's too easy to forget that for many women, the coat hanger was once a symbol of fear.

If you want to reduce the number of abortions, that's fine. Contraceptive coverage is a good way to start. But outlawing abortion is to say that a woman loses the right to make a choice for herself once she gets pregnant.

[Whateverist]

I'd like to focus on the question of coercion. If a woman feels as CL does that even a child conceived in rape is a human being with a right to life, then I'm all for her acting in accord with her values. I wouldn't wish to coerce her actions by force of law.

Cathy and Tiberius - are you content to plead your case to a woman pregnant by rape but then leave it to her to decide? Or do you think her choice should be coerced by law?

[Aroura]

Then you should go do that right now.  Seriously.  There are thousands of special needs kids who actually exist and need adoption.

I am glad to hear about you and your daughter though. : Of course they can, I never said they couldn't, just that I could not give what was needed.  If you can, then you should.

Thank you. It truly is a life changing experience. I had her when I was 24 and my world literally stopped. She's a great kid and if I could afford to adopt another child with DS, I would in a heartbeat. 

We all do what we feel is best for ourselves, families and future. It's the best we can do considering the circumstances we are given. I admire your honesty with the subject. I lost a baby two years ago and just at the beginning of October, I got a tubal ligation and an ablation done. I'm 44 with two daughters and two step-sons ranging in ages from 11 to 20. My plate is full and I'm happy. I am happy for your family and I'm positive that your daughter has the best mom and dad ever. 

This was so nice, I somehow feel like a horrible person! Lol
This topic is very emotional, that's for sure. You are a sweet person, and your children are truly lucky to have someone like you as their mom. I mean that. I can only wish I were half the mom people think I am, or that people like you are.

I feel like I need to call my mom and thank her for washing my laundry, and finding lost shoes 5 minutes before school, and making a fire at 6am so we would be warm when we woke up, and all the things I took for granted as a child. It is so important. So many kids aren't that lucky.

[Qwest]

Here we go... Had the bomber had brown skin and been a Muslim it would have been a terrorist attack INSTANTLY but because he was a white Christian (I'm white before you jump On that one) we have tried to find every other reason as to why he would do this.we dont want to call him a terrorist because that would say some Christians could be also and that takes them off the higher moral ground they set up for themselves.. I have been sick watching this. Truth in journalism? i don't think so. I go to TYT

[Joods]

This was so nice, I somehow feel like a horrible person! Lol
This topic is very emotional, that's for sure. You are a sweet person, and your children are truly lucky to have someone like you as their mom. I mean that. I can only wish I were half the mom people think I am, or that people like you are.

I feel like I need to call my mom and thank her for washing my laundry, and finding lost shoes 5 minutes before school, and making a fire at 6am so we would be warm when we woke up, and all the things I took for granted as a child. It is so important. So many kids aren't that lucky.

Please don't feel horrible. I try very hard to be everything my own mother wasn't. She played favorites (my sister), used me as her scapegoat, projected all her hate onto me and sided with my abuser. I have not spoken to her in five years. The peace and quiet has been worth it. 

How old is your daughter, if you don't mind my asking? They grow up so fast. I can't believe I have one that's 20.

[Whateverist]

Mr Hanky is a talking piece of shit on the TV show South Park.

Great, now I've done did it.

I've seen some South Park but I don't recall any Mr Hanky.  Are you disparaging Mr Hanky or is he literally a piece of shit with the power of speech?

[SteelCurtain]

I've seen some South Park but I don't recall any Mr Hanky.  Are you disparaging Mr Hanky or is he literally a piece of shit with the power of speech?

Mr. Hanky, the Christmas poo, he loves me and I love you!

[Whateverist]

There's no point in trying to be nice anymore,

I disagree. To that end, please accept my apology for my abrupt post. I was on my way to the movies with the missus when I read what you wrote and didn't take any time to consider where you might be coming from in making such a post. Most of us go through things and as a result occasionally say some things which do not reflect our better lights. In general it is better to give people a chance to back off of those sorts of statements gracefully. I wasn't very considerate of you in that regard and I am sorry.

.. while children are irreparably damaged at the hands of religious people, my coiuntry is sliding at a steepening angle toward outright theocracy. If you don't understand this, then maybe you've had the privelige of being raised non-religious.

I do find it beyond disturbing that the general well-being (health, self-esteem, self-understanding through sound education) of innocent children are being treated as less important by apparently senior members of this forum than your misguided emphasis on putting on a nice face for people who have never, ever played nice, have never, ever played clean, and who never, ever will do either while they are in power.

Honestly, most of this reads as a little paranoid. I take it you've had some unpleasant experience with religion. I've had some myself.

[Catholic_Lady]

I'd like to focus on the question of coercion.  If a woman feels as CL does that even a child conceived in rape is a human being with a right to life, then I'm all for her acting in accord with her values.  I wouldn't wish to coerce her actions by force of law.

Cathy and Tiberius - are you content to plead your case to a woman pregnant by rape but then leave it to her to decide?  Or do you think her choice should be coerced by law?

It would be hard at first, I won't deny that. And I don't envy any woman who gets raped and finds herself pregnant. Thank goodness it's rare, especially if she takes the morning after pill. But I still stand that the law should protect the right to life of all humans, which like Tib said, trumps all other rights. Of course, she'd get all the help she needs, including counseling and all medical bills paid for and an easy adoption process assuming she chooses not to keep the baby. Ideally, our culture would eventually become one that saw the unborn as human beings and abortions wouldn't even be wanted by the majority of people who otherwise would. 

I am familiar with a lady who was conceived by rape. I don't know her personally but met her in a pro life facebook group and exchanged several PMs. She's a lovely lady, married with 3 children, and does a lot of charity type work to help the poor children in Uganda. Rape is horrible. But any person who comes from it is an innocent bystander and can grow up to become the best of people if we only see them worthy of that chance.