Your opinion on "Prayer Shaming"?

[Joods]

True story:

I had a downstairs neighbor who told me she sa'ved a sick, premie baby by praying over it really hard.  Seriously.  I even asked her if the parents weren't probably praying as well? She said they were too distraught to "pray effectively, and she KNOWS it was her prayers that saved that baby.  She spent a lot of time patting herself on the back, and told that story often. Anyway.

Overall, I have little issue with people praying during or after a crisis.  But in this case, the newspaper was specifically targeting politicians who say they will pray, who have the power to make effectual change, but instead continue to push forward with political agendas that only worsen social ills.  So, they needed calling out, IMO.

Just out of curiosity, did the neighbor happen to acknowledge any of the trained medical staff who put their skills into treating this premie? Because you know, I would have loved the opportunity to debate that with your neighbor. I'll be that would have been fun watching her turn a million shades of crimson.

[Rhondazvous]

So after the shooting at a college in October here in Oregon, President Obama said “Our thoughts and prayers are not enough.”.  Of course I've seen that sentiment a thousand times on this forum or with other atheists on twitter or facebook, but the Christian President saying it seems to have loosed the tongues of more people.

I think many of you have seen the NY Daily News front page by now.



Of course this has angered a lot of people (who pray).  They are calling it "prayer shaming", latching onto the whole "Stop shaming us" movement that we see with "fat shaming", "victim shaming", "gay shaming", etc. 

Personally, I wold never tell an average, private citizen that their prayers are worthless. Not my mom or a friend, or even a stranger.  

However, I do think it IS a useless platitude used in a political and not meaningful way when offered nearly verbatim from a string of politicians who continue to do everything in their power to keep people stupid, dogmatic, fearful, poor, and utterly oppressed with their moronic ideals on women's health, social justice, the vast disparity between the 1% and the rest of us, etc.  They don't even MEAN it, so I think they should be called out and this little crappy newspaper deserves some applause for having the guts to say such an unpopular, but true, thing.

So what do you think?  Is it ok to tell people to get off their asses and do something instead of praying?  Or are we "shaming" people who are really just trying to offer their condolences?  Do you tell friends or family how you feel....and how do you feel about it?  Is "prayer shaming" even a thing, or are Christians again trying to play the "you are oppressing us by saying mean things!" card?

Not only Obama, but the Bible itself tells us that it is not enough to pray.

James tells us when someone is hungry and naked, it is not enough to send them away with prayers and good thoughts talking about "Be thou clothed and be thou ged.' He calls this "dead faith."

But of course when Christians have a political agenda, the last thing they want to hear is what the Bible has to say, if it doesn't support their agenda.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

So after the shooting at a college in October here in Oregon, President Obama said “Our thoughts and prayers are not enough.”.  Of course I've seen that sentiment a thousand times on this forum or with other atheists on twitter or facebook, but the Christian President saying it seems to have loosed the tongues of more people.

I think many of you have seen the NY Daily News front page by now.



Of course this has angered a lot of people (who pray).  They are calling it "prayer shaming", latching onto the whole "Stop shaming us" movement that we see with "fat shaming", "victim shaming", "gay shaming", etc. 

Personally, I wold never tell an average, private citizen that their prayers are worthless. Not my mom or a friend, or even a stranger.  

However, I do think it IS a useless platitude used in a political and not meaningful way when offered nearly verbatim from a string of politicians who continue to do everything in their power to keep people stupid, dogmatic, fearful, poor, and utterly oppressed with their moronic ideals on women's health, social justice, the vast disparity between the 1% and the rest of us, etc.  They don't even MEAN it, so I think they should be called out and this little crappy newspaper deserves some applause for having the guts to say such an unpopular, but true, thing.

So what do you think?  Is it ok to tell people to get off their asses and do something instead of praying?  Or are we "shaming" people who are really just trying to offer their condolences?  Do you tell friends or family how you feel....and how do you feel about it?  Is "prayer shaming" even a thing, or are Christians again trying to play the "you are oppressing us by saying mean things!" card?

If you want to express condolences send money.  Prayers are useless.  After all, it was God's will that it happened and by praying you are saying that God screwed you over and you want a better deal.

[Aroura]

True story:

I had a downstairs neighbor who told me she sa'ved a sick, premie baby by praying over it really hard.  Seriously.  I even asked her if the parents weren't probably praying as well? She said they were too distraught to "pray effectively, and she KNOWS it was her prayers that saved that baby.  She spent a lot of time patting herself on the back, and told that story often. Anyway.

Overall, I have little issue with people praying during or after a crisis.  But in this case, the newspaper was specifically targeting politicians who say they will pray, who have the power to make effectual change, but instead continue to push forward with political agendas that only worsen social ills.  So, they needed calling out, IMO.

Just out of curiosity, did the neighbor happen to acknowledge any of the trained medical staff who put their skills into treating this premie? Because you know, I would have loved the opportunity to debate that with your neighbor. I'll be that would have been fun watching her turn a million shades of crimson.

No, she was one of those people who believe humans are hands of god, any good is credited to god, evil is credited to human agency and the devil.

I never argued with her because she was on kidney dialysis, heart problems and diabetes from her obesity. I obviously made her feel good to think she was so important to have saved a child, I was not going to take it away from her. It still sickened me though.

[Minimalist]

I never argued with her because she was on kidney dialysis, heart problems and diabetes from her obesity.

Sounds as if 'god' fucked her over but good.

[abaris]

So what do you think?  Is it ok to tell people to get off their asses and do something instead of praying?  Or are we "shaming" people who are really just trying to offer their condolences?  Do you tell friends or family how you feel....and how do you feel about it?  Is "prayer shaming" even a thing, or are Christians again trying to play the "you are oppressing us by saying mean things!" card?

The line has to be drawn where people get hurt. If someone finds some consolation in praying, especially when they just lost someone, I'm not going to barge in with a lecture.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

---

Just out of curiosity, did the neighbor happen to acknowledge any of the trained medical staff who put their skills into treating this premie? Because you know, I would have loved the opportunity to debate that with your neighbor. I'll be that would have been fun watching her turn a million shades of crimson.

---

No, she was one of those people who believe humans are hands of god, any good is credited to god, evil is credited to human agency and the devil.

I never argued with her because she was on kidney dialysis, heart problems and diabetes from her obesity. I obviously made her feel good to think she was so important to have saved a child, I was not going to take it away from her. It still sickened me though.

It sound like she's going to need a barrel of special healing oil and a whole herd of church elders anointing her with the oil in the name of the Lord and praying over her.  ~ James 5:14-15.  Someone should make that happen.  The Repubs want to eliminate health care for the poor people so she won't have any medical procedures in a few weeks.

[Catholic_Lady]

In times of crisis most people find themselves at a loss for words. They reach for common and socially acceptable things to say. Trying to take that away from distressed and/or well intentioned people is thoughtless at best and mean-spirited at worst.

If the intention of the Daily News was to ridicule the empty platitudes of politicians and media commentators then they could have done so more respectfully to the general population. The format and message appear designed to agitate and perhaps even offend. It barely conceals their agenda journalism and have dropped all pretense of journalistic objectivity. Notice that this is not a call to provide tangible aid and positive encouragement to the friends and families of the victims. I am quite certain that people are already doing tangible things such as offering to the survivors help with household chores, ready-made meals, financial assistance, etc. I don’t think the Daily News, and other Left-wing media figures, had these kinds of actions in mind; but rather more regulations on private gun ownership (regardless of the merits of those policies). If it was not already obvious to some, anyone can see that mainstream media serves the political Left-wing. We probably should not hold our breath waiting for them to harshly condemn other empty platitudes and terms like “save the planet”, “achieve sustainability”, and “respect differences.”

I agree with Aurora’s OP and feel that it raises good points for discussion. What disturbs me most about some AF member comments is the projection of their own intolerance of religious practices and disgruntlement  that Christian culture in the USA hasn’t entirely disappeared. Whatever some of you may believe about the actual efficacy of prayer, it is truly offensive to disparage the motives of those who pray, particularly Christians, in times of need.

To Darkstar: Your support of the OP is right on. Nevertheless this is not a matter of simply having ‘thin skin’. Media outlets and prominent figures occupy positions of power and are using their disproportionate influence to belittle the source of some people’s central identity and core convictions. The assumption here is that people who pray do only that and nothing else. That is not the case. Every Christian is part of the Body of Christ, through whom He works to achieve His will. Not all, but many Christians will indeed take action to “Fix It.” They just aren’t necessarily the actions Obama and the Democratic Party think should be taken.
 
To Vic: You comment is insulting because it assumes that Christianity makes people passive. No Christian believes that we should just ‘pray and do nothing’, even if sometimes that is all that can be done. We pray before we start to do something and let God work through the Church. To paraphrase St. Paul, “We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.” The secular assumption is that we can “Fix It” by our own efforts. From the Church’s perspective, sinful Man on his own cannot “Fix It.” Ultimately only God can mend the Heart of Man that is the source of all evil. We still have to show up.

To Quantum: Your assertion that the prayers of believers are “not really directed at the victims, but at the themselves” is deeply patronizing and just plain wrong. Of course Christians seek consolation and reassurance from prayer. He is our Comfort and a Mighty Fortress. But that is not all that prayer does. It gives courage, like Peter and Paul, to push forward toward worthwhile goals, despite personal suffering  against overwhelming  opposition. Like the puny boy, David, facing the fearful and giant opponent, prayer gives us boldness for fight for what often appear to be lost causes.
To Losty: Our pastors remind us every Sunday that prayers are not enough. Coming from secularists, who put their faith in government, it is patronizing and reveals the self-righteous assumptions many unbelievers, particularly those in the media.

To Judi Lynn: The bible does not say that public prayer isn’t allowed. In Matthew 6:6, Jesus condemns the hypocrisy of those who make a show of their prayers in order to be thought pious. In Mark 6:41, Jesus publicly blesses the five loaves and two fish before distributing them to the masses. Moreover, the entire book of Psalms is a collection of public prayers.
In your later post you attribute to Christians a “f*ck you” attitude for starving children in Africa and others in need. Then how do you explain World Vision, Tear Fund, Hope Africa, Compassion International…the endless list of missions and international aid?  And that’s just Africa. Every time a Christian puts money in a collection plate they are doing something. Christians were at work long before secular organizations and governments got into the game. Even then, are you so embittered that you believe only atheists and humanists work within secular aid organizations? The Methodist Church actively supports UNICEF. The not-for-profit for which I work is secular, but I cannot tell you how many people of faith, motivated by their faith, work with me to achieve our goals.

To all of You: Before you accuse Christians of ‘doing nothing’, think for a moment about all the oldest and most respectable Hospitals in your area. Just in Chicago we have: RUSH Presbyterian, Saint Luke’s, Mount Sinai, Lutheran General, etc. Northwestern was originally formed out of Wesley Memorial. Modern medicine as it is today would not have been possible without deeply religious people motivated by their faith to engage the natural and social evils. Harvard University’s first beneficiary was a Puritan Minister, John Harvard. So historically, Christians created much of infrastructure from which we all benefit. Only a fool would suggest otherwise and only those who choose not to see would suggest that Christ’s Church is not active today.

Well said, Chad.

[vorlon13]

Does God hear the prayer of an insincere pandering politician ??

Seems like that tabloid headline might be embraced by sincere believers. I'm sure most of those in the 'sincere' camp don't think there is much chance of Obama calling down a blessing from anyone other than Satan, I'm thinking it might be a rather more widespread and pernicious condition.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Does God hear the prayer of an insincere pandering politician ??

Does God vote?

If so, this may explain Florida's "hanging chad" problem, which worked out so well for the Repugnicunts in 2000.