God's "perfect" Plan

[Autumnlicious]

God has as much of a plan for the universe as I've a plan for taking a porcelain cruise...

/pitstop time

[Godscreated]

Also why would I make the statement that part of God's plan is to allow history to run its own course.

You can't be serious. You said that on the first page of this thread. Anyway, I can't answer that question for you. You said it. I can't possibly know your motive for saying it.

Yes I'm serious. My reason for the statement is this God is allowing history to run its own course He does not interfere with your daily choices. Every choice you make is yours and yours alone God is not responsible for your choices.
I asked you to show me where in this or any post that I made the statement that God has a secret plan. God having a secret plan makes no sense to me or to any christian that I personally know. God does have plans and they are layed out in scripture read them don't just take my word about this.
Yes I know you think all this is just a bunch of foolishness so be it time will be the judge of that.

[superstarr]

@godschild

So what you are trying to tell me, is that the verse doesn't apply to real life? Really? So that verse doesn't mean that God does schedule your life? What you are trying to tell me, is that the verse is misleading people, and contradicts pre-established "ideas" of god having a plan. And I'm not stating that God does have a plan, I'm stating that if he indeed did have a plan, (like christians and the bible state), that makes prayer useless. Which means that one of the most important things in christianity (prayer) would be tossed out because it would be useless. And prayer is an important thing, right? What I'm stating is that any plan from God would kill prayer, and if prayer really works, then the "plan" would be impossible. What I'm trying to say, is that christianity overall contradicts its own ideas. You didn't say that God had a plan for each day, but according to christians, the bible is right, so that means that even psalms 139:16 is right, which turns prayer against a plan. I don't think you understand what I'm trying to tell you.

If god had plans like that quote I put, then that means that we have no free-will, and if you say that psalms 139:16 isn't part of god's plan, then that proves yet again that your bible isn't perfect as you may think.

[Minimalist]

My reason for the statement is this God is allowing history to run its own course He does not interfere with your daily choices.

That's some pussy god you've dreamed up ( emphasis on the 'dreamed.') He's got all the power in the universe but he won't stop some low-life from shaking a kid to death?

Who needs a fucking 'god' like that?

[Mr Camel]

Ok so let me get this straight...

You believe God has a divine plan, but you don't think it controls nature in every way?
You believe his, all be it, "wishful" plan is clearly written in the bible and it's our choice, out of the "free will" God gave us, to read the bible and believe it's his plan?
You believe our "free will" sets us apart from God and makes us independent from him but you also make claims about his intentions... as if you are not independent from him and you know his intentions..
Because if this is not the case, then you're just making everything up... everything you believe in, that you've told us here, is in your own mind.

Yes I know you think all this is just a bunch of foolishness so be it time will be the judge of that.

This "foolishness" actually, is clearly nonsensical bullshit; it only makes sense to the senseless.
And to say "time will be the judge of that" is the biggest cop out I've heard yet. If that's how you sum up your entire belief collection, then why do you bother entering in intellectual debate?

[Purple Rabbit]

Yes I know you think all this is just a bunch of foolishness so be it time will be the judge of that.

Indeed, I think there's more coherence in the crap we flush down the toilet.

And time has already been the judge of it since it is affirmed in the biible that followers of Jesus present in his lifetime will experience rapture. In fact it's one of the very few falsifiable statements in the bible. If you read the bible closely you'll see that all his direct followers, Paul in particular, based on this statement, expect rapture to happen within their lifetime. Since rapture after a rough 2000 years still hasn't happened it's safe to make up the balance now and refute that prophecy. On itself it makes a very strong case to refute the christian dogma alltogether.

[Godscreated]

Purple Rabbit you are correct in saying that Paul believed Jesus return would be in his life time. That was his belief early in his ministry but later in his ministry he understood that was not the truth and he understood that long before his death. Now I have a challenge for you find in the Bible where anyone spoke of a rapture of the church.
Read the book of Matthew there you will find what Jesus said about the end of time and what you want find there is anything about a rapture. Also Paul never wrote about a rapture so this should help narrow down your search IF you decide to take my challenge.

Scott Richens I'll give you this you are clever in the way you twist the words of someone who doesn't agree with you.
Yes God has a divine plan and it requires no action on your part to be included in that plan you do not have to decide anything your birth was sufficient for you to be part of the plan. It is God's will that you would choose the plan of salvation (divine plan) but it's your choice outside of Gods will. Understand so far. Just as parents make plans for their children and have desires for their futures the childern are free to choose the life they want outside of the parents desires it's the way God works with mankind. Now God's ultimate will can not be changed and letting history run its course no matter how much evil or good history will contain is part of God's ultimate will.Yes there are things in history that would be against God's ultimate will and He has stopped them such as Hitler and Stalin trying to destroy the nation of Israel. Your choices,my choices, Min's choice, Purple Rabbits choices, everyones choices has some effect on history and because Gods divine plan includes freewill history is not set in stone. Just because God can see down through the pages of history doesn't mean He has every minute of history planned out what it does mean is that God knows how history is going to play out. So you see it's important (at least for believers) to read and study the Bible so that we can understand what is and what isn't God's ultimate will so we can know how to pray about things God will and will not allow to happen.
Those who choose God's salvation have no desire to be completely independent of God's will for their lives and the only way a christain is going to know His will for their life is through scripture and for Him to reveal His intent for our lives. I'm not making up anything and if you believe I am then go to the Bible read and study it for your self. Finally just because you do not believe in the claim that the God of the Bible is real doesn't make my argument nonsensical who are you to judge my beliefs you do not know anything about God and can not because you do not believe in the claim He's real.

Super Starr my reply to you is the same as Scott Richens so read my reply to him.

Min I've notice you did not bring a full answer to my reply to you. Also if you did believe in God would you want Him to treat you like a puppet and have you live your life without choice. There are many times I wish God would intervene in peoples lives who do harm to others but I know that would be
against His will not to control our lives unwantedly. However I can take some sola[/b]ce in believeing He might lead these evil people to justice in this life.

[Minimalist]

Who needs a fucking 'god' like that?

How much "fuller" would you like?

[Mr Camel]

Scott Richens I'll give you this you are clever in the way you twist the words of someone who doesn't agree with you.

Twist? Perhaps...
I guess I was trying to twist it so it made sense, my mistake.

So reading an ancient book and believing in it and creating your own imaginary friend is all you need to do? Hows that for a twist?
I think that's all you needed to say.
Talking about twisting words, it's something you'd have to get used to if you view the bible the way you seem to. It sounds too much like God choses from birth who gets into heaven... as if he implants the mumbo-jumbo and it's activated after reading the bible.. and those he doesn't implant, grow up and live happy, godless lives.

I've studied quite a bit of the bible, actually. Would you like my opinion of it?

[Shell B]

Yes I'm serious. My reason for the statement is this God is allowing history to run its own course He does not interfere with your daily choices.

The confusion arose when you asked me why you would say that. Rather odd that you came back and told me why you said it, after you implied that you didn't say it.

Every choice you make is yours and yours alone God is not responsible for your choices.

No shit.

I asked you to show me where in this or any post that I made the statement that God has a secret plan.

No, you didn't.

God having a secret plan makes no sense to me or to any christian that I personally know.

Doesn't make any sense to me, either.

God does have plans and they are layed out in scripture read them don't just take my word about this.

I won't just take your word for it. However, you'll have to tell me where in scripture you find these plans. I'm not going to read scripture to look for "god's plans". Also, if god controls everything and he has plans that are not secret, how come every motherfucker that reads the bible doesn't know about everything before it happens? Sounds like god keeps secrets or people who believe in god and don't believe he keeps secrets are fucking lunatics. Then again, I don't believe in god, so that makes it rather difficult for me to believe he has plans.

Yes I know you think all this is just a bunch of foolishness so be it time will be the judge of that.

It has been foolishness for quite some time now. When is this magical "the bible isn't foolish" moment going to happen?