"The first person to live to [200, 300, 500, 1000] has already been born"

[Excited Penguin]

Ok, let's lose the term immortality for a second. Think of it more as advancements in medicine that allow you to live longer. Except it's forever. You're still mortal though. I will still be able to shoot you dead, unless we somehow change our bodies with nanotechnology so that we become truly invincible, or we find some other way to preserve our conscience only to then upload it in a body of our choosing, or in a simulated reality or in our old body that's been fixed in the meantime. But that's highly speculative and not exactly as likely as us solving the ageing problem - not even close.

Secondly, I would be having fun too, no question about it. But I think if you truly started to think about the dangers we face as a species, and you had all the time in the world to do that, technically at least, you would want to do something about it too. Anyone and everyone who would want to prevent death by disaster or accident would too.

Pretty sure a society which can "cure aging" isn't going to have trouble with gunshot wounds.......

We -do- have all the time in the world, or at least all the time in the world allotted to our species (whatever that may be).  People were doing science before you were born, for example..they're doing it now, and will continue to do it beyond your death.  I'm already doing something about the troubles we face and immortality isn't a requirement for me to do so..nor, being realistic about my abilities and importance...would my being immortal have significant impact on that.  Personally, and this is opinion..I see the exact opposite.  I'll keep the mill turning for my time..but at some point I have to get out of the way, if..for no other reason, so a fresh set of eyes can look at the problem.  Stagnation, imo, is what would come of immortality - among other things.

You're simply confused. You seem to appreciate reproduction over survival, which is insane, since the whole point of reproduction is survival. I think your concerns are laughable, and while you're worried about stagnation, I worry a lot about your being closed-minded.

Unless, of course, you're not really serious, which I expect you're not. Being too skeptical as a matter of principle can be a really bad thing.

I think we're done here.

[Excited Penguin]

Stagnation, imo, is what would come of immortality - among other things.

Why would we think that? Why wouldn't we think the opposite, or neither? Are we to believe that knowing they will die makes people more productive to make the most of their time? One could just as easily make the argument that it makes them apathetic to make changes in the world they will never get to benefit from.

These people are almost dogmatic about it. Leave it alone. You might as well try to convince Trump he should give you all of his money and fuck off, or a religious zealot to admit he's being stupid.

[Amine]

If you want to let nature do its job, skip the antibiotics next time you get an infection and refuse to wear eyeglasses or similar such things.

---

Haven't read the book but have seen his @google talk about it, not that this is any substitute. I'd like to read it but my list is long.. perhaps you could say what is so compelling about his case.

What is bigotry? To me it seems clear that saying different rules apply to some group because of an irrelevant distinction is the definition of bigotry. If I said it were wrong to look for a cure for a fatal disease that only (for example) deaf people could get, that would be bigotry. The mechanics in that situation are exactly the same.

I couldn't. You would have to read the book for yourself. It wouldn't be fair since he put so much effort into it.

I'm pretty sure after having read it your current reading list will seem trivial by comparison. If saying that can't get you to read it, sadly nothing will.

I think you're overestimating your influence on people.. you gotta actually make the case man. This is lazy. "Go read the book" is sort of a pet peeve of mine. If you're going to do that at least provide a compelling case. Yes, it is challenging, but that's life and people have to prioritize. I've felt the same way recently about Steven Pinker's Better Angels. I really wish people would read it, but it is not sensible for me to ever just declare by fiat that they need to listen to me despite any lack of argumentation. So I've been trying to put this 700 page book into my arguments, and it is hard, but it's better than just telling them to do something they almost definitely will not do.

Not that I don't want to read it. I do. But there are a ton of other books that I have every reason to believe are just as important for me to read, if not more so. Give me the reasons. That way even if I don't read it, I will have taken something from what you said about it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Stagnation, imo, is what would come of immortality - among other things.

Why would we think that? Why wouldn't we think the opposite, or neither? Are we to believe that knowing they will die makes people more productive to make the most of their time? One could just as easily make the argument that it makes them apathetic to make changes in the world they will never get to benefit from.

Take a look at science, just as one example.  It's rare to find the proponents of a theory among the camp of those who later overturn it with a new theory.  Old eyes breed old answers.  Somebody new comes along and takes the establishment, kicking and screaming, to a place closer approximating the truth.  I don't know whether or not someone believes (or wants you to believe) that mortality makes us more productive, I don't think so, in any case.   

You're simply confused. You seem to appreciate reproduction over survival, which is insane, since the whole point of reproduction is survival. I think your concerns are laughable, and while you're worried about stagnation, I worry a lot about your being closed-minded.

Unless, of course, you're not really serious, which I expect you're not. Being too skeptical as a matter of principle can be a really bad thing.

I think we're done here.

Confused about what?  It's not an issue of "appreciating" reproduction, though I do,  I'm acknowledging that reproduction will continue to occur...and that in the context of an immortal race...and without invoking some dystopian control scheme, that would be trouble. Do you disagree? If people stopped dying, today...and continued to reproduce, what do you imagine would happen? How long do you think there would be food on your plate..or water in your cup?

[Catholic_Lady]

How in the world would that work? Lol. Are we going to forcefully sterilize all men and women, except the ones we deem fit to reproduce or something?

What is the alternative? You would rather let people die of old age when they have the cure to ageing or overpopulate the planet so that them or others starve just so they can make some babies who would have to go under that exact same process?

When you talk about those things, think about the context you're talking about them in.

Yes, I would rather just let it be as nature intended. Die of old age and make room for new life.

[Excited Penguin]

I couldn't. You would have to read the book for yourself. It wouldn't be fair since he put so much effort into it.

I'm pretty sure after having read it your current reading list will seem trivial by comparison. If saying that can't get you to read it, sadly nothing will.

I think you're overestimating your influence on people.. you gotta actually make the case man. This is lazy. "Go read the book" is sort of a pet peeve of mine. If you're going to do that at least provide a compelling case. Yes, it is challenging, but that's life and people have to prioritize. I've felt the same way recently about Steven Pinker's Better Angels. I really wish people would read it, but it is not sensible for me to ever just declare by fiat that they need to listen to me despite any lack of argumentation. So I've been trying to put this 700 page book into my arguments, and it is hard, but it's better than just telling them to do something they almost definitely will not do.

Not that I don't want to read it. I do. But there are a ton of other books that I have every reason to believe are just as important for me to read, if not more so. Give me the reasons. That way even if I don't read it, I will have taken something from what you said about it.

Frankly, I don't give that much of a fuck whether you read it or not. So there's that.

[Excited Penguin]

Why would we think that? Why wouldn't we think the opposite, or neither? Are we to believe that knowing they will die makes people more productive to make the most of their time? One could just as easily make the argument that it makes them apathetic to make changes in the world they will never get to benefit from.

Take a look at science, just as one example.  It's rare to find the proponents of a theory among the camp of those who later overturn it with a new theory.  Old eyes breed old answers.  Somebody new comes along and takes the establishment, kicking and screaming, to a place closer approximating the truth.  I don't know whether or not someone believes (or wants you to believe) that mortality makes us more productive, I don't think so, in any case.    

You're simply confused. You seem to appreciate reproduction over survival, which is insane, since the whole point of reproduction is survival. I think your concerns are laughable, and while you're worried about stagnation, I worry a lot about your being closed-minded.

Unless, of course, you're not really serious, which I expect you're not. Being too skeptical as a matter of principle can be a really bad thing.

I think we're done here.

Confused about what?  It's not an issue of "appreciating" reproduction, though I do,  I'm acknowledging that reproduction will continue to occur...and that in the context of an immortal race...and without invoking some dystopian control scheme, that would be trouble.  Do you disagree?  If people stopped dying, today...and continued to reproduce, what do you imagine would happen?  How long do you think there would be food on your plate..or water in your cup?

I would imagine the fucktards who wouldn't get that rearing a child in that world would be paramount to killing that same child, plus some other number of people due to lack of resources, would need to be forcibly castrated, jailed, or the person who would fuck them would need to be held responsible. And in a world where you don't die, a life sentece would be a pretty good deterrent. A death sentence though? Don't even get me started.

Shit, I'd have to become a republican I think.

[KUSA]

Has anyone here seen the show Lexx? In it were an accent people known as the Brunnen-G. They found the cure for old age and could live forever if they didn't get fucked up by something. They naturally became very risk averse and wouldn't hardly come out of their house out of fear of a fatal accident.

On their new home-world the Brunnen-G thrived, developing ever more impressive technologies until they discovered a cure for death itself, granting their entire race immortality. This breakthrough proved to be a curse however, as their people descended into acute paranoia, erecting a powerful energy shield around their world and living in constant fear of death, hiding in their homes and building elaborate protective structures underground.

http://lexx.wikia.com/wiki/Brunnen-G
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexx

[The Grand Nudger]

I would imagine the fucktards who wouldn't get that rearing a child in that world would be paramount to killing that same child, plus some other number of people due to lack of resources, would need to be forcibly castrated, jailed, or the person who would fuck them would need to be held responsible. And in a world where you don't die, a life sentece would be a pretty good deterrent. A death sentence though? Don't even get me started.

Shit, I'd have to become a republican I think.

So...you'd have, in effect, decided that you and your generation were or should be the last to be born, and would indeed begin a dystopian program of castration and incarceration? Good for you.  Remind me never to put you in charge of anything.

[Excited Penguin]

Has anyone here seen the show Lexx? In it were an accent people known as the Brunnen-G. They found the cure for old age and could live forever if they didn't get fucked up by something. They naturally became very risk averse and wouldn't hardly come out of their house out of fear of a fatal accident.

On their new home-world the Brunnen-G thrived, developing ever more impressive technologies until they discovered a cure for death itself, granting their entire race immortality. This breakthrough proved to be a curse however, as their people descended into acute paranoia, erecting a powerful energy shield around their world and living in constant fear of death, hiding in their homes and building elaborate protective structures underground.

http://lexx.wikia.com/wiki/Brunnen-G
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexx

Still better than dying.


Hell, probably even a billion billion years of Christian Hell would be better than dying. If you die, nothing matters. That's pretty much the gist of it. If your kids die, nothing matters to them either. If their kids die, same thing, and so on. Up until we can stop death, our race is a failed race. We might as well be a bunch of rocks.