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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 18, 2015 at 2:13 pm
(December 15, 2015 at 8:39 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: So, did gestating and birthing Jesus use up (for lack of better verbiage) all the Immaculate mo-jo Mary had, or did some remain to 'enhance' subsequent offspring ??
IOW, did having Jesus result in Mary sliding back into the sinful nature the rest of us are awash in all the time, or did she stay as she was, and if so, wouldn't that have been a significant positive for subsequent pregnancies ??
Mary was a sinner before during and after she gave birth.
Nothing in the bible even hints at the fact that she was without sin. It simply says God was pleased with marry/who she was, not that she earned God's approval because she lived a sin free life.
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm
(This post was last modified: December 18, 2015 at 2:17 pm by Whateverist.)
(December 18, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Drich Wrote: (December 15, 2015 at 8:39 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: So, did gestating and birthing Jesus use up (for lack of better verbiage) all the Immaculate mo-jo Mary had, or did some remain to 'enhance' subsequent offspring ??
IOW, did having Jesus result in Mary sliding back into the sinful nature the rest of us are awash in all the time, or did she stay as she was, and if so, wouldn't that have been a significant positive for subsequent pregnancies ??
Mary was a sinner before during and after she gave birth.
Nothing in the bible even hints at the fact that she was without sin. It simply says God was pleased with marry/who she was, not that she earned God's approval because she lived a sin free life.
So, as far as you know, Mary might well have been as perfect a human being as Jesus or anyone else according to your source s. If the bible is mute, then your point is moot.
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm
(December 15, 2015 at 9:59 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Mary's hymen is the same as a lizards tail.
Scaly . . . I knew it!
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 18, 2015 at 2:19 pm
(December 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: (December 18, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Drich Wrote: Mary was a sinner before during and after she gave birth.
Nothing in the bible even hints at the fact that she was without sin. It simply says God was pleased with marry/who she was, not that she earned God's approval because she lived a sin free life.
So, as far as you know, Mary might well have been as perfect a human being as Jesus or anyone else according to your sources. If the bible is mute, then your point is moot.
No.. We then Go to what Paul says about every person put on this earth besides Christ... If Mary has not been given any special dispensation, concerning sin then she is considered to be a sinner like everyone else as she is not Christ.
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 18, 2015 at 2:21 pm
(December 18, 2015 at 2:16 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: (December 15, 2015 at 9:59 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Mary's hymen is the same as a lizards tail.
Scaly . . . I knew it!
No wonder Joseph never went there. They didn't have antibiotics or fungus treatment back then.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 18, 2015 at 3:08 pm
Hey!
I didn't make up the immaculate reception stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 18, 2015 at 3:22 pm
That's a catholic thing. Any idiot will tell you they're not true xtians. And I'm sure one will.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 18, 2015 at 7:10 pm
No one enforces the damn franchise agreement any more.
Any 2 bit charlatan scripture cherry picking shithead can say they're a Christian and there ain't no accountability.
Hell, there's goddam Presbyterians running around claiming to follow Christ !!!
Fucking outrageous !!
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 29, 2015 at 8:47 am
(December 15, 2015 at 9:14 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: It depends on your religious tradition. As Min pointed out, Catholics believe her (and Joseph) remained virgins. Also the eastern Othodox and many protestants hold this belief as well. Most others say that they got it on and some believe they did have kids afterwards. This is actually a pretty new belief, as the bible explicitly mentions the brothers of Jesus.
From wikipedia:
Quote: The Gospel of Mark 6:3 and the Gospel of Matthew 13:55-56 state that James, Joses (or Joseph), Judas, and Simon were the brothers of Jesus, the son of Mary. The same verses also mention unnamed sisters of Jesus. Another verse in the Epistle to the Galatians 1:19 mentions seeing James, "the Lord's brother", and none other of the apostles except Peter, when Paul went to Jerusalem after his conversion. The "brothers of the Lord" are also mentioned, alongside (but separate from) Cephas and the apostles in 1 Corinthians 9:5, in which it is mentioned that they had wives. Some scholars claim that Jesus' relatives may have held positions of authority in the Jerusalem area until Trajan excluded Jews from the new city that he built on its ruins.[4]
I don't know how you really get around that one. I think my CCD teacher (who ironically believed in a literal Adam and Eve) said that the brothers of Jesus were metaphorical.
Note: It's also 'Query' Queery sounds like something else entirely.
I've read a bit about this.
The ancient Christian belief is that Mary remained a virgin. Joseph MAY have been a widower and married her in order to provide a safe home where her vow of virginity would be respected. But it's also possible that he, too, remained a virgin.
In the fourth of fifth century, Helvidius proposed that Mary was not perpetually virgin, and Jerome came down on him like a ton of bricks. IOW, the idea that Mary was NOT ever-virgin was considered the novelty. Even the reformers such as Luther, Calvin and John Wesley held that Mary was perpetually virgin, so the notion that Mary had other children besides Jesus is the theological novelty.
The reason that the New Testament mentions Jesus' "brothers" is that the Aramaic language does not have a word for "cousin" or nephew, etc. ALL distant relatives were simply called "brothers". And although the NT was written in Greek, the underlying thought of the authors was undoubtedly Aramaic - even for Mark who got his understanding of the gospel from Peter/Cephas.
This is why the NT never refers to "sons of Mary" or "daughters of Mary" - such people did not exist. But "brothers" and "sisters" - who were technically "cousins" of Jesus did exist.
For example, John the Baptist and James and John (the sons of Zebedee) were relatives of Jesus.
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RE: Mary's Womb Query
December 29, 2015 at 8:58 am
(December 18, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Drich Wrote: (December 15, 2015 at 8:39 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: So, did gestating and birthing Jesus use up (for lack of better verbiage) all the Immaculate mo-jo Mary had, or did some remain to 'enhance' subsequent offspring ??
IOW, did having Jesus result in Mary sliding back into the sinful nature the rest of us are awash in all the time, or did she stay as she was, and if so, wouldn't that have been a significant positive for subsequent pregnancies ??
Mary was a sinner before during and after she gave birth.
Nothing in the bible even hints at the fact that she was without sin. It simply says God was pleased with marry/who she was, not that she earned God's approval because she lived a sin free life.
D-
Normally, I would say that you are on target in your explanations of Christian doctrine, but what you wrote above is not what Christians have believed from the beginning.
As you may or may not know, Catholics believe that Mary was preserved from original sin by the Immaculate Conception, and that this was fitting since she would carry god in her womb. It wasn't NECESSARY since God could have simply prevented Jesus from inheriting that but it was FITTING that Mary be a pure vessel. Catholics see Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant. The Orthodox have a different understanding regarding original sin, but they also hold Mary in very high esteem.
The angel's greeting, "Hail, Mary, full of grace" provides some scriptural support for this view. A glass that is "full" cannot have anything more added to it. If Mary is "full" of grace, then there is no room for sin in her. So, in addition to the constant, ancient teaching of the Church, there IS something in the Bible that "hints at the fact that she was without sin".
Conversely, there is nothing in the Bible that says that Mary WAS a sinner.
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