Episode VII (spoilers)

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Meh, As far as I can tell people provided very good reasons for why the movie was shitty. I have yet to see very good reasons let alone reasons for why the movie is supposedly so great.

[Anomalocaris]

I think you're taking us not liking the movie personally. We don't like the movie, we totally dig you.

I don't take your opinions personally. What you think about me is irrelevant to my life. I get irritated at terrible movie/book critiques. If you're going to hate/dislike something, at least do it for good reasons and don't justify them with shitty ones.

Try and remember I spent several pages not arguing with him. As someone pointed out, instead of just writing the movie and the thread off, both he and Aractus spent several posts complaining. So who's taking what personally? No one. This is a discussion forum. You don't want your opinion discussed? Don't drop it here.

I never called your reasons for swooning at this 3rd rate movie, or for rejecting serious critiques of it, "shitty" or "terrible", even though they are.

[Drich]

..and just who was kylo supposed to be sparing with to make him such a light saber master? Not to point out the obvious but look at the grace and elegant use of the lightsaber fights between obi and vader in E3 verse, anyone in this movie. They are all hacks! kylo has one or two levels of expertise above the either finn or rey. Rey has one lunge/stabbing move she tries 3 different times, which could easily be exploited by a trained swordsman. it obvious kylo is no vader with a light saber. His 'strength' is obviously the use of the force.

which the force requires concentration to use. something hard to do with a big hole in your side

So he couldn't just use the force to knock Rey back on her ass or slam her into another tree like he already just did once about two minutes ago with the same big hole on his side?   Based on episold 1-3 Jedi in training use that maneuver a lot while fighting with light saber.   Or did the miticlorians all drain out with the few drops of blood he shed in the intervening 2 minutes?

Again force strong does not mean one is automatically good with a light saber.

[thesummerqueen]

When you provide a serious critique, I'll reconsider my opinions.

[Anomalocaris]

So he couldn't just use the force to knock Rey back on her ass or slam her into another tree like he already just did once about two minutes ago with the same big hole on his side?   Based on episold 1-3 Jedi in training use that maneuver a lot while fighting with light saber.   Or did the miticlorians all drain out with the few drops of blood he shed in the intervening 2 minutes?

Again force strong does not mean one is automatically good with a light saber.

No, but also again, he could just hold Rey immobile like he did during their last encounter, and fuck the light saber.   Or again, just slam Ray backwards into a tree like he did two minutes before, and light saber be damned.  This dude can hold a blaster bolt immobile in mid air, after all, something not even Vader have been seen to be able to do.

Hey, aren't bad dudes suppose to be able to shoot lightning bolts from their finger tips?

[Clueless Morgan]

Meh, As far as I can tell people provided very good reasons for why the movie was shitty. I have yet to see very good reasons let alone reasons for why the movie is supposedly so great.

My reasons include:

I enjoyed the story.
I enjoyed the callbacks to earlier movies.
I enjoyed the humor.
I enjoyed most of the characters.
I just enjoyed watching it.

I don't expect you, or anyone else, to think that these are "very good reasons" for thinking this movie is "supposedly so great" these are just some of the reasons I enjoyed it.

What you might be calling "very good reasons" for why the movie was so bad are things I might personally either not agree with, not care about, and/or things that didn't hamper my enjoyment of the film. For instance, there's been some slamming of the cinematography. I didn't notice anything wrong with it and it didn't hamper my enjoyment of the movie so I put this in the category of "don't care." There has been talk (here or elsewhere) about the overly on-the-nose use of classic themes in the score (playing Vader's theme over the reveal of his melted helmet) but I enjoyed it in a nostalgic way. There has been critiques that the movie was just a rehashing of epIV and I whole-heartedly agree - but that didn't hamper my enjoyment of the movie even though for some people it did.

We're talking about art, here. People have subjective experiences of art. It moves some people and doesn't move others and there's no right or wrong answer to whether something is "good art" in the sense of everyone having the exact same opinion of it.

I can't stand a lot of the big Hollywood summer blockbuster movies, for instance (I think they're stupid premises with thin plots and cater to the widest possibly audience simply so studios can make money), but millions of people love them.

My sister did a painting once that was a gestural paint stroke (a single stroke of black paint on a white canvas). I looked at it and thought it was interesting and had good visual balance but wasn't especially emotionally moved by it or anything. My mom looked at it and loved it because her daughter made it. My grandpa looked at it and asked "That's art?"

I've gotten in long, drawn out and rather heated discussion with people (online and IRL) about the Twilight books and movies and how much I hate them and I needle the people I talk to who like them - but it's their prerogative to like them even though I think they're a steaming donkey turd heaped on a pile of elephant shit.

People experience art differently and movies are art. Some people with like The Force Awakens and others won't. Some will take issue with inconsistencies with the SW universe and others won't. Some will be able to look past any technical issues, or story problems or cinematic flubs and some will get hung up on them.

So what?

It's art.

Get over it.

[Iroscato]

Why I loved this film:

While there are the obvious callbacks and familiar beats, the film makes an effort to be more layered with its references than simply retreading old ground all the time - the Darth Vader wannabe is written as a Darth Vader wannabe. Hux may fill a somewhat similar role to Tarkin, but his personality and mannerisms are quite different, and they strongly manifest during his speech to the FO troops. There is a self-awareness in almost every reference in the movie that shows they have approached the film with more thought than many people are willing to admit. Surface similarities are undercut by clear differences in approach and manifestation.

The characters are all fucking cool, in their own way. Kylo Ren is probably my favourite due to his unstable, fragile, cult -memberesque persona, and the obviously powerful internal struggle.

The lightsaber fight was precisely what I wanted to see in the film - brutal, unvarnished, aggressive. Two people who are actively trying to slice each other up with energy swords rather than engaging in a twirly dance-off.

There were hints of a far larger backdrop throughout the film, but the focus was kept tightly on the characters and the story, effectively grounding the narrative and focusing on what actually mattered.

The action was superb in pretty much every way you care to mention.

There were some brilliant moments of comedy, the best ones delivered by BB-8, who is a great addition to the franchise.

I'm not claiming for a moment this was perfect - it certainly had its flaws. So did the OT, but that didn't stop me loving those films, and it won't stop me loving this one.

[pocaracas]

So, "the force awakens"... what does it mean?

- The awakening of the force in the whole Galaxy? Seems like that was stopped a few years before the movie's time...
- The awakening of the force in Rey? Consistent with the flashback and realization during the final fight... it's like she awoke to the Force...

[Exian]

I would like to hear specifically what was wrong with the cinematography. And please include your definition of cinematography.

Was it the framing? Because I saw a few moments when the camera had trouble keeping up with a ship, which is intentional to add realism. AFAIK, this was first used in the first Iron Man movie.

[Drich]

Again force strong does not mean one is automatically good with a light saber.

No, but also again, he could just hold Rey immobile like he did during their last encounter, and fuck the light saber.   Or again, just slam Ray backwards into a tree like he did two minutes before, and light saber be damned.  This dude can hold a blaster bolt immobile in mid air, after all, something not even Vader have been seen to be able to do.

Hey, aren't bad dudes suppose to be able to shoot lightning bolts from their finger tips?

Remember your failure at the cave!

If we learned anything from Luke's training with yoda, using the force takes concentration, and couple that with what vader taught us sith powers take the extra measure of anger and hate.
Maybe that is why he kept punching himself in the blaster wound chewie gave him. Remeber this is the same type of wound that all but crippled Chewbacca in the first major battle. pushing though the pain of a torso blast, then sword fighting, then getting knicked a couple of different times.. by the end of the fight this guy was maybe firing on 2 of 10 cyclinders. while rey was firing on 8 of 8. Considering what he went though I think he put up a fairly good defense/attack remember he did just take on their version of a 'spartan' and sliced him open like a taun taun..