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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 30, 2015 at 3:49 pm
(December 30, 2015 at 1:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: He designed the world so that who want to maybe of his helpers, and would help us in return, and reward our help and raises us to ranks and create beauty through that in our souls and majesty.
Part of the design of the world in allowing dark forces to lead people astray, is so there is battle, a fight, for guiding God's servants and helping his cause.
Of course God could of been a nanny protective type Creator which makes sure no evil or harm comes to all of us, but, there is a majesty in saying, "you can take it, you can do it, and you must do it, embrace my name, embrace my sword of honor, embrace the light of my face, take my help and call out for more of it from me or you will lose yourself in the battle against your enemies, and you must help the truthful ones and be with them for their cause is my cause, and be a mercy and favor to the humanity and I will increase my mercy and favor to you."
See if you can spot the pattern.
"Jesus designed the world so that who want to maybe of his helpers, would help us in return."
"Yahweh designed the world so that who want to maybe of his helpers, would help us in return"
"Brahama designed the world so that who want to maybe of his helpers, would help us in return"
"Amun designed the world so that who want to maybe of his helpers, would help us in return"
"Cacoch designed the world so that who want to maybe of his helpers, would help us in return"
"Baiame designed the world so that who want to maybe of his helpers, would help us in return"
Now that is a short list of human history of worldwide claims of creator gods. There are literally 100,000s of creation myth stories in human history.
We would not care if your claim that an invisible pink unicorn created all this. You still did not answer Robvalue's question. Why would an all powerful being need human help? And why out of all the claims in human history, like those above do you think your book and your god claim is special?
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 30, 2015 at 5:42 pm
Like I just said in the other thread, I'm afraid I'm going to have to give up debating you MK. It's like we're not even talking the same language. I appreciate you trying, but I don't think we can get anywhere with this.
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 30, 2015 at 5:47 pm
(This post was last modified: December 30, 2015 at 5:48 pm by Brian37.)
(December 30, 2015 at 5:42 pm)robvalue Wrote: Like I just said in the other thread, I'm afraid I'm going to have to give up debating you MK. It's like we're not even talking the same language. I appreciate you trying, but I don't think we can get anywhere with this.
It's not a complete waste, this also acts as information for other atheists just starting their new found freedom.
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 30, 2015 at 5:50 pm
(This post was last modified: December 30, 2015 at 5:54 pm by robvalue.)
That's true 
Yes, a lot of what I write I hope will be of use to someone out there, even if I doubt it's going to make any impact on the person I'm saying it to.
If I find something I understand, I'll reply to it. Otherwise, I just don't know what to say to this...
I don't want to sound insulting, I try very hard to take theists' view points seriously. But with this stuff, it might as well say, "Little fairies come into your room at night and sprinkle dreams into your head, and then aliens give you special powers so your muscles can work."
It's like... sure... if that was true, then it would be true. But it's not anything I've ever seen the slightest indication of anywhere.
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 30, 2015 at 5:53 pm
(December 30, 2015 at 5:50 pm)robvalue Wrote: That's true
Yes, a lot of what I write I hope will be of use to someone out there, even if I doubt it's going to make any impact on the person I'm saying it to.
If I find something I understand, I'll reply to it. Otherwise, I just don't know what to say to this...
I am no fan of "what is the use" or "who are they bothering". Challenge of any religion is not a call to end it by force. But if you don't do it, bad ideas can grow like weeds, so at a minimum you do it too keep religion from becoming abusive. Sometimes you get lucky and the light bulb goes off and someone gets freed from their mental shackles.
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 30, 2015 at 5:57 pm
(This post was last modified: December 30, 2015 at 5:59 pm by robvalue.)
No, it's not like that. It's that I literally can't understand what MK is talking about. I can't even reply to it, because it makes no sense to me. I can pick out the odd thing here and there, but mostly it just doesn't register as anything at all.
I'm not trying to be mean, and it could be my fault entirely. But that's just how it is.
Like I said, I'll see if I can reply to the bits that make sense. As for the rest of it, I'll just have to accept that is how he see things.
I feel bad about it, really. He doesn't seem to understand what I'm saying either much of the time. This has been a bummer for me. But I've seriously tried everything I can think of.
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 30, 2015 at 6:09 pm
(This post was last modified: December 30, 2015 at 6:12 pm by robvalue.)
I'm sorry MK, I feel bad. This has upset me, utterly failing to be able to communicate. All I can say is I have tried. I appreciate your beliefs are strong and important to you.
I will look for things I can reply to. I never mean to misrepresent you, but I hope you can appreciate that when I can barely register what you are saying, misunderstandings are inevitable. You're talking about a world of magic, one which I am not in. The way you see things is almost entirely different to how I do, it seems.
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 30, 2015 at 8:26 pm
(December 30, 2015 at 5:57 pm)robvalue Wrote: No, it's not like that. It's that I literally can't understand what MK is talking about. I can't even reply to it, because it makes no sense to me. I can pick out the odd thing here and there, but mostly it just doesn't register as anything at all.
I'm not trying to be mean, and it could be my fault entirely. But that's just how it is.
Like I said, I'll see if I can reply to the bits that make sense. As for the rest of it, I'll just have to accept that is how he see things.
I feel bad about it, really. He doesn't seem to understand what I'm saying either much of the time. This has been a bummer for me. But I've seriously tried everything I can think of. No it is not your fault.
Religion is simple, swallow first, find elaborate works to find excuses to cling to it, make word salad to defend it. Of course you don't understand it, that is why it is called faith. You like your life fact based.
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 31, 2015 at 6:13 am
(This post was last modified: December 31, 2015 at 6:16 am by robvalue.)
Thank you.
It is a general problem, you're right. As soon as someone starts talking about souls, spirits, gods, ghosts, auras... they have lost me. I ask what these words mean and I never get a meaningful answer. At least not one that means anything to me.
Whatever is going on in such people's heads does not correlate with the reality I have observed my whole life. Either they are deluded in some way (I'm not suggesting willingly so) or I'm missing some integral sensor. Or... they are actually experiencing a different reality to me. That last seems the least probable, since in general I find agreement with other observers.
Even my wife believes in ghosts. I'm pretty sure I know why she does. But it isn't of any consequence to everyday life, and she doesn't make it a problem.
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RE: A conversation with Robvalue about religion.
December 31, 2015 at 8:38 am
(December 29, 2015 at 9:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Yeah refuted. I've been here on forums for a while now. I'm very well aware of how good at refutations you guys are.  Conversely it's well noted how credulous you are.
"For the only way to eternal glory is a life lived in service of our Lord, FSM; Verily it is FSM who is the perfect being the name higher than all names, king of all kings and will bestow upon us all, one day, The great reclaiming" -The Prophet Boiardi-
Conservative trigger warning.
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