If Allah has a plan, what is the point of Dua?

[Angrboda]

I'm sure they are as convincing to you as they are unconvincing to me.  The bulk fall under the headings of numerology and retconning, the practice of putting new interpretations on old passages as if the interpretation was there all along.  I don't think we need a rehash.

Well I know how a lot of atheists believe in scientific and astronomical reasoning and as I said there are plenty of examples of the Qur'an that are supported by these schools of thought. For example there are 114 chapters in the Qur'an. Ch.57 is Al-Hadyd or The Iron. Arabic letters have numerical value like Roman numerals in a sense. So with the word for iron Hadyd...(Ha)H=8 (Dal)D=4 (Ya)Y=10 and (Dal)=4. Add these values together u get 26. Look on any periodic table on Fe the symbol for iron u see the atomic number is 26. Now furthermore the Arabic article Al which means the (Alif)A=1 and(Lam)L=30. Add this 31 to the value of 26 Making it 57 and Al-Hadyd "The iron" which is the chapter name and number. To take it 1 step further 57 is exactly halfway through the Qur'an..scientists have discovered that if u cut the Earth in half, exactly to its inner core, it consists of molten iron.

These type of coincidences demonstrate nothing. They result from people with two much time on their hands looking for significance where there is none. Now if Muhammed had written about such numbers occurring in his text, I might not so casually dismiss it, but then it would be intentional. There's nothing here that couldn't have happened by accident. As far as proof of faith, none of these numerological miracles is convincing. It's like the Davinci code; you can find parallels in any text of sufficient length.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

If you aren't an Arab why would you bother to worship an Arabian deity?

Allah is not a deity He is the only deity. His name in Arabic is broken down Al(prefix meaning The) and ilah(deity). When u combine them to Allah u get "The deity". When God sent a prophet to a nation of people this prophet came from their own people so they could relay God's message to worship Him alone in a language the people would understand. God sent over 120,000 prophets to all of the nation's of people He created. But the Prophet Muhammad pbuh was not just sent for the Arabs he was sent for all of mankind. Because Allah is Arabic for God, doesn't make Him an Arab deity. In Hebrew they call Him Yahweh. Spanish Dios. English God. So they all refer to the same being just in different languages. So because Prophet Muhammad pbuh spoke Arabic this is why we call  God Allah, call ourselves Muslims which is Arabic for " submitter to God" and why our Qur'an original language is in Arabic. It's also why all the miracles of the Qur'an: scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic are all in the Arabic language and not the translated languages

So, when was the last time you read the Bible, the Torah, and the Zabur?  Do you believe what they say?

Do you know who revised the Koran to include chapters and numbered verses like the ones used in the Bible?

[Sheed1980]

Well I know how a lot of atheists believe in scientific and astronomical reasoning and as I said there are plenty of examples of the Qur'an that are supported by these schools of thought. For example there are 114 chapters in the Qur'an. Ch.57 is Al-Hadyd or The Iron. Arabic letters have numerical value like Roman numerals in a sense. So with the word for iron Hadyd...(Ha)H=8 (Dal)D=4 (Ya)Y=10 and (Dal)=4. Add these values together u get 26. Look on any periodic table on Fe the symbol for iron u see the atomic number is 26. Now furthermore the Arabic article Al which means the (Alif)A=1 and(Lam)L=30. Add this 31 to the value of 26 Making it 57 and Al-Hadyd "The iron" which is the chapter name and number. To take it 1 step further 57 is exactly halfway through the Qur'an..scientists have discovered that if u cut the Earth in half, exactly to its inner core, it consists of molten iron.

These type of coincidences demonstrate nothing.  They result from people with two much time on their hands looking for significance where there is none.  Now if Muhammed had written about such numbers occurring in his text, I might not so casually dismiss it, but then it would be intentional.   There's nothing here that couldn't have happened by accident.  As far as proof of faith, none of these numerological miracles is convincing.  It's like the Davinci code; you can find parallels in any text of sufficient length.

The first thing u have to understand is Prophet Muhammad pbuh didn't write this or anything else in the Qur'an because he was illiterate, he couldn't read or write, and everybody who knew him knew this. That was one reason why God sent it through him. To show that no human could come up with such a scripture. But how about God says in the Qur'an The universe is expanding. How could anyone in the 7th century, when telescopes and satellites weren't even drawn up, have knowledge of this unless He created the universe. Today astronomists see our universe is still expanding to this day. Imagine drawing dots on a balloon then inflating it with air. The dots will move further away from one another which is exactly what stars and planets in our universe is doing as well. What human had knowledge of this, back in a time when they thought the Earth was flat and the mountains held up the skies? Or another example is the words for land and sea are mentioned 13 times and 32 times throughout the Qur'an. Add them to get 45. Then 13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.1111111% these are the exact scientific percentages of land and water that cover our planet to this day. No human knew this. So this book had to have come from someone who did have that knowledge, who is none other than Allah, our creator I have more for u if u like

[ReptilianPeon]

Sheed1980, you know that 28.8 and 71.1 added together doesn't equal 100% don't you? It equals 99.9%. So according to the Quran, part of the Earth is missing. I'm sure that if I do all sorts of awkward mathematics i.can get the Quran to say whatever I want too.

[ReptilianPeon]

I just want to add that the percentage of the surface of the Earth that is water is constantly changing. I find it odd that the Saudis tried to sabotage Paris climate talks given that if global warming melts all of the ice then this scientific miracle of the Quran to do with the surface of the Earth will not longer be valid.

And why are you counting freshwater in your calculations when the word you used to do the calculations is "seas"? If you exclude freshwater then the percentage will not be 71%. I think you're being very disingenuous.

[robvalue]

I highly doubt anyone believes the Quran is true just on the strength of these "miracles". They already believe it is true, and they use these things as justification.

If I'm wrong, and this kind of retrospective pattern spotting is all it takes to convince someone, they may as well worship Noddy goes Fishing as you can find these patterns anywhere if you're prepared to just use whatever method gets the result.

If you think this kind of thing will impressive a scientifically minded person, I'm afraid you're grossly mistaken.

[ReptilianPeon]

And another thing; Why doesn't the Quran just plainly say that 71% of the surface of the Earth is water? Why do we need to do all of this maths? Allah can't just clearly state this miracle so we have to count the number of a certain word in the Quran and then add that number with another number...and it's just way to convoluted.

[Brian37]

These type of coincidences demonstrate nothing.  They result from people with two much time on their hands looking for significance where there is none.  Now if Muhammed had written about such numbers occurring in his text, I might not so casually dismiss it, but then it would be intentional.   There's nothing here that couldn't have happened by accident.  As far as proof of faith, none of these numerological miracles is convincing.  It's like the Davinci code; you can find parallels in any text of sufficient length.

The first thing u have to understand is Prophet Muhammad pbuh didn't write this or anything else in the Qur'an because he was illiterate, he couldn't read or write, and everybody who knew him knew this. That was one reason why God sent it through him. To show that no human could come up with such a scripture. But how about God says in the Qur'an The universe is expanding. How could anyone in the 7th century, when telescopes and satellites weren't even drawn up, have knowledge of this unless He created the universe. Today astronomists see our universe is still expanding to this day. Imagine drawing dots on a balloon then inflating it with air. The dots will move further away from one another which is exactly what stars and planets in our universe is doing as well. What human had knowledge of this, back in a time when they thought the Earth was flat and the mountains held up the skies? Or another example is the words for land and sea are mentioned 13 times and 32 times throughout the Qur'an. Add them to get 45. Then 13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.1111111% these are the exact scientific percentages of land and water that cover our planet to this day. No human knew this. So this book had to have come from someone who did have that knowledge, who is none other than Allah, our creator I have more for u if u like

NO, you are simply looking for excuses in that book to cling to it. Holy books are not predictive. They are myths that were written for the times of the people they were written in. It is the same mental error that allows someone to fall for horoscopes, the same mental error that allows someone to believe that the magician sawed the woman in half. The same mental error that allows gullible humans to believe psychics are real.

There is no such thing as a prophet just like there never were Oracle priests talking to the polytheistic gods of Greece and Rome. There is no such thing as a book with magic powers, and nobody has ever talked to a god. Fishing for excuses in a non scientific book after the fact based on ambiguous quotes does not count. Again, every religion does this.

You merely like what you believe, that's all. We can tell you it is all in your head and if you are brave enough to question the claims of others, then you can and should be intellectually brave enough to aim that criticism at your self and your own claims.

By the way, what is with your superstition always saying pbuh? I know what it means , but I find that as superfluous as when Jews  insist you never type god's name "Yahweh"? Every time you type "pbuh" I get the image of someone winning a giant stuffed teddy bear at a carnival. It sounds like you are talking about Winnie The Poo, "pbuh=Poo Bear".

[Brian37]

But what is the point of life if we don't have an invisible buddy who hides in another dimension and does nothing? I just don't think I'm ready to face that possibility.

What is the point of nipples on men? What is the point of an appendix? What is the point of ABBA? 

Thheeee loint of nall uv thus iz thut their iz nune ultea-mate-ly. Live iz wut u meek ut. <------That is what religion does to human thought, it takes mundane reality and twists it to comic book interpretations.

Theists cant understand that the reason they come to these conclusions is literally really nothing more than "if you want to believe a false claim as fact badly enough, you will."

The reality is, "The point of all this is that there is none ultimately. Life is what you make it." The more humans seek natural explanations and the less we gap fill with fantasy, the more accurate our knowledge is and we have a better understanding of reality.

[Sheed1980]

The first thing u have to understand is Prophet Muhammad pbuh didn't write this or anything else in the Qur'an because he was illiterate, he couldn't read or write, and everybody who knew him knew this. That was one reason why God sent it through him. To show that no human could come up with such a scripture. But how about God says in the Qur'an The universe is expanding. How could anyone in the 7th century, when telescopes and satellites weren't even drawn up, have knowledge of this unless He created the universe. Today astronomists see our universe is still expanding to this day. Imagine drawing dots on a balloon then inflating it with air. The dots will move further away from one another which is exactly what stars and planets in our universe is doing as well. What human had knowledge of this, back in a time when they thought the Earth was flat and the mountains held up the skies? Or another example is the words for land and sea are mentioned 13 times and 32 times throughout the Qur'an. Add them to get 45. Then 13/45=28.8888889% and 32/45=71.1111111% these are the exact scientific percentages of land and water that cover our planet to this day. No human knew this. So this book had to have come from someone who did have that knowledge, who is none other than Allah, our creator I have more for u if u like

NO, you are simply looking for excuses in that book to cling to it. Holy books are not predictive. They are myths that were written for the times of the people they were written in. It is the same mental error that allows someone to fall for horoscopes, the same mental error that allows someone to believe that the magician sawed the woman in half. The same mental error that allows gullible humans to believe psychics are real.

There is no such thing as a prophet just like there never were Oracle priests talking to the polytheistic gods of Greece and Rome. There is no such thing as a book with magic powers, and nobody has ever talked to a god. Fishing for excuses in a non scientific book after the fact based on ambiguous quotes does not count. Again, every religion does this.

You merely like what you believe, that's all. We can tell you it is all in your head and if you are brave enough to question the claims of others, then you can and should be intellectually brave enough to aim that criticism at your self and your own claims.

By the way, what is with your superstition always saying pbuh? I know what it means , but I find that as superfluous as when Jews  insist you never type god's name "Yahweh"? Every time you type "pbuh" I get the image of someone winning a giant stuffed teddy bear at a carnival. It sounds like you are talking about Winnie The Poo, "pbuh=Poo Bear".

. According to the Quran, around the year 620 AD, about 7 years after the severe defeat of the Christian Romans armies (led by Heraclius) by the Persians. The first verses of Surat-Ar-Rum predicted that the severely defeated Romans would soon be victorious over the idolatrous Persians. At the Battle of Antioch in 613–614 AD, the Persians took control over important Eastern Roman territories expanding into Syria, Jerusalem, Armenia and Egypt. The Eastern Roman Empire was so very unlikely to get over this Persian expansion and was about to collapse totally. In 622, Heraclius gained a number of victories over the Persians and conquered Armenia. In 627, the two empires fought a decisive battle at Nineveh, some 50 km east of the Tigris river, near  in which the Romans emerged victorious. Another future claiming event takes place in ch 54 Al-Qaar The Moon. The word moonis used only one time in this chapter. If u count the remaining chapters from that verse to the end of the Qur'an u will count 1390 verses. The year 1390 in the Islamic Hijra calendar is equivalent to 1969 of our Gregorian calendar. All of us know in 1969 man first set foot on the MOON. Ch 19 Maryam or Mary verse 57 God says he was raised to a high place. 19:57 of the Qur'an right? 1957 was the year Sputnik the first man made satellite was raised high into space. There are other examples that are mentioned how the Earth will be destroyed on Judgment Day, but of course we can't talk about that, nor the questioning in our graves by the 2 angels Munkar and Nakir until it actually happens, and that knowledge is with Allah alone. I'm glad to see where ur sense of humor leads to but we as Muslims always wish peace upon all of Allah's prophets. That's what pbuh means peace be upon him but u knew that already.

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I just want to add that the percentage of the surface of the Earth that is water is constantly changing. I find it odd that the Saudis tried to sabotage Paris climate talks given that if global warming melts all of the ice then this scientific miracle of the Quran to do with the surface of the Earth will not longer be valid.

And why are you counting freshwater in your calculations when the word you used to do the calculations is "seas"? If you exclude freshwater then the percentage will not be 71%. I think you're being very disingenuous.

Using the Arabic term which relates to all natural bodies of water, whether salt or fresh. So ur excuse to try to prove this as false information won't work. If it were the case of differing being salt and fresh water we couldn't consider the Great Salt lake in Utah a lake, but instead a small sea right? So as u see with the Arabic words the percentages prove true no way around it