Really, Germany?

[Ivan Denisovich]

If you really had a notion about why it happened you wouldn't feel the irrational urge to blame someone for it.

How authoritative. You convinced me.

No one is to blame. Forget about blame and guilt altogether. Focus on preventing crime and containing it. You can cry in your pillow about the other stuff all you want.

No one is to blame? Neither killers nor ideologues? Why should I forget about guilt? To not make you sad?

No, I didn't say that. In fact I don't think it's anyone's "fault", not even Hitler's. Hitler did what he did. He couldn't have done otherwise and didn't. Same goes for everyone else.

Why exactly Hitler couldn't done otherwise? It's genuine question. Were his deeds written in the stars for example? Were his taking of power in Germany somehow preordained?

It's not just mere talk. These are demonstrable facts that shed light on the problem. I am very aware of earlier anti-Semitism and all of the other factors involved. In fact I pointed out myself that there's many factors to it. Do you have any point at all here or are you just talking gibberish?

I'm afraid that you're the one talking gibberish. Hitler couldn't done otherwise!? Really?

Though yes Hitler charisma certainly played a role in all this.

You're saying I'm not right so I'm not right. Interesting. Also I don't blame everyone - I only answered to your claim that Germans weren't entirely responsible. 

Instead of saying certain Germans. It's true you later said you're not blaming all Germans for it, so let me clarify my own statement as well, if it is a game of language that you want us to play here. Instead of blaming everyone I'm accusing you of blaming anyone at all in particular and having that extend to present times in any way, shape or form. Instead, we should be looking at the roots of the problem and try and prevent it from ever happening again. If I'm strawmanning you here, that's great, it's just a misunderstanding. If not, my point stands.

Here it is just misunderstanding. I didn't mean all Germans, but indeed I should have write it clearly. And I certainly don't blame people born after war for whatever was done earlier.

As for looking on the roots of the problem I agree, though I don't really understand your position, i.e. Hitler inability to done otherwise. In this we disagree, but I'm open to discussion.

Your way of arguing is really dishonest. If you go back and read my statements, then read yours, that's easy to see. I'll indulge you though for as long as we can keep up any semblance of a conversation.

I see no dishonesty in my way of arguing. If you see it then it's indeed gracious of you to indulge humble me with discussion.
[/quote]

[Excited Penguin]

How authoritative. You convinced me.

This criticism is lost on me. How am I more or less "authoritative" than you are-however you meant it?

No one is to blame? Neither killers nor ideologues? Why should I forget about guilt? To not make you sad?

You have an uncanny ability to transcend tone and context and throw at me isolated things I didn't necessarily mean.

Why exactly Hitler couldn't done otherwise? It's genuine question. Were his deeds written in the stars for example? Were his taking of power in Germany somehow preordained?

Because, yes and yes.

I'm afraid that you're the one talking gibberish. Hitler couldn't done otherwise!? Really?

Though yes Hitler charisma certainly played a role in all this.

Yes, really.

Here it is just misunderstanding. I didn't mean all Germans, but indeed I should have write it clearly. And I certainly don't blame people born after war for whatever was done earlier.

As for looking on the roots of the problem I agree, though I don't really understand your position, i.e. Hitler inability to done otherwise. In this we disagree, but I'm open to discussion. 

I am open to it as well, but we might have to take it somewhere else.

Don't take things personally. I'm just glad to have a discussion. I'll just have it with you, see where it takes us, and if any particular point of yours makes more sense I'll take it into consideration and I'll be the wiser for it.

[Ivan Denisovich]

This criticism is lost on me. How am I more or less "authoritative" than you are-however you meant it?

I probably used wrong word. I mean that there is no reason for me to took this statement seriously as it kinda reminds me of saying that all true Christians....

You have an uncanny ability to transcend tone and context and throw at me isolated things I didn't necessarily mean.

It's possible.

Because, yes and yes.

It's a poor joke. My question was genuine even if tone of it was inflammatory.

I am open to it as well, but we might have to take it somewhere else.

It may be a good idea. PM perhaps or another thread?

Don't take things personally. I'm just glad to have a discussion. I'll just have it with you, see where it takes us, and if any particular point of yours makes more sense I'll take it into consideration and I'll be the wiser for it.

(Emphasis mine)

You're glad that you're having discussion with someone who you apparently consider dumb? Though fear not for I also consider some of your point as lacking in sense.

[Excited Penguin]

You're glad that you're having discussion with someone who you apparently consider dumb? Though fear not for I also consider some of your point as lacking in sense.

I'm glad to talk to anyone. I don't think you're intentionally using low tactics of conversation so I have no further problems with you and would be always available to discuss anything.   How does that sound?

Look, I only criticised your points, never called you dumb, only called some of your arguments dumb - a good distinction to make. I'm not sure why you're looking for a fight. Having a debate should be a fun thing to do, and also educational for both sides.

[Ivan Denisovich]

I'm glad to talk to anyone. I don't think you're intentionally using low tactics of conversation so I have no further problems with you and would be always available to discuss anything.  

So I'm unintentionally using low tactics in conversation? Don't know if I should be offended or amused. But it gladdens my heart that you have no further problems with me.

How does that sound?

This sounds wonderful. I wanted to hear something like that since childhood.

Look, I only criticised your points, never called you dumb, only called some of your arguments dumb - a good distinction to make. I'm not sure why you're looking for a fight. Having a debate should be a fun thing to do, and also educational for both sides.

I'm not looking for a fight even if some of mine posts might have look like I do. I'm naturally snarky.

As for distinction, yes it is good, but one must be aware that such is being made. About debate I have nothing to add and I'm in full agreement with what you wrote.

[Excited Penguin]

So I'm unintentionally using low tactics in conversation? Don't know if I should be offended or amused. But it gladdens my heart that you have no further problems with me.

Be amused until further notice. That's an order!

[Iroscato]

[Excited Penguin]

Iroscato is our resident troll. Nothing to worry about.

[Iroscato]

I'm a troll for Good, though. I'm fluffier than most and I smell quite nice.

[Ivan Denisovich]

I'm a troll for Good, though. I'm fluffier than most and I smell quite nice.

Fluffier? So kinda like on this picture?